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The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

afterbabel.com

441–450 of 824 posts

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#441

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you want people off cars, you need to give them an alternative Never going to happen, outside of few dense city centers. Once an area is platted for detached single family homes and big box stores on stroads, the physical layout is incompatible with non car life, and hence you have to literally destroy everything and start over with narrow streets and smaller plots of land. The expense of this is not going to wi…

> Once an area is platted for detached single family homes and big box stores on stroads, the physical layout is incompatible with non car life, and hence you have to literally destroy everything and start over with narrow streets and smaller plots of land. Not really. Repave the roads to make them slimmer, use the space gained to provide elevated sidewalks and bike lanes so people can see it with their own eyes that…

It won’t work, because until you provide everything without a car, people will want a car, which means space for a car, and once they have a car, they are going to use the car to travel to big box stores where they want parking for the car to buy their goods at lower prices due to economies of scale.

And you can’t just repave roads, there are utilities and sewer that needs to be moved, and that’s the small problem. The big problem is facing the outcry of very active voters for reducing their road space and making their commutes even a minute longer.

And if all the homes around this repaved area are detached homes with garages in 0.1+ acre lots, you will never have the density of customers to support businesses.

It kind of has to start at a city center and slowly, very slowly spread outward. But as soon as you hit the higher end suburbs with bigger plats, that’s where any of that high density hope stops, because the political will simply isn’t going to be there. Look at any US city and you will see the “trendy” or “hipster” or whatever areas with a few restaurants and whatever in a small walkable area are all in areas with postage stamp houses in tiny lots.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#442

I’m so glad it’s finally happening but also it’s wild to me this conversation feels like it’s just beginning. The Anxious Generation book seems to have been what was needed for people to see what, to me anyways, was common sense and actually question their silly iPad at 6months old parenting styles. As it’s picking up steam, I’ve been hearing stories recently about how our local “school district decided to ban phones…

This isn't new, by the way. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bowling_Alone A book published in 2000 based on an essay from 1995. I remember my sister took a university course on it. The Internet only replaced social interactions for a tiny group of enthusiasts at that point and "phones" were the size of small briefcases and were novelties in cars at that point (1995). Declining socialization has been happening for _deca…

Yes, overly focused on smartphones, and underfocused on car-centric city planning: https://images.fastcompany.com/image/upload/w_768,f_auto,q_a...

https://www.fastcompany.com/90653986/traffic-devastates-loca...

As we've become richer, we've bought more cars, we drive them more often, and to further locations. The amount of vehicle traffic and parked cars in neighborhoods have long exceeded the limit for how much you can have before streets become unsafe. This is why children can't go outside unsupervised anymore: there are too many cars, going too fast, and too many parked cars that are too good at hiding children about to run into the road.

You have to get rid of the cars, or limit their use somehow. Eliminate on-street parking. Get rid of monster trucks and SUVs that can only see the ground 22 feet away. More speed bumps and traffic calming.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Professor Michael Rosenfeld at Stanford does research on how heterosexual couples in the US meet ( https://web.stanford.edu/~mrosenfe/ ). In 1940, over 50% met via friends or family. About 36% met at school. In 2021, about 20% met via friends or family. About 10% met at school. Over 50% met online. So the majority of US couples are now meeting via profit-maximizing corporations. He has a 2019 paper on this (and it ha…

Interestingly, there was another big shift happening from 1940-1980: - in 1940, the top 3 were: met through family, met through friends, met in primary school. In that order, but pretty much equal - From 1940-1980, two of those three (family, primary school) trended sharply downward, as did "met in church", while these trended upward: met through friends, met in bar or restaurant, met as or through coworkers, met in…

> (also, the values for "met online" on that graph seem to be small but non-zero in the 1980s! I'd like to hear the stories of some of those couples...)

IIRC Jason Scott's BBS documentary mentions this a bit. There's a couple that shows up a number of times that met on a BBS.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some portion of alcohol prices are a barrier to entry to create the desired crowd. You might not want to attract the type of person looking to get shitfaced for cheap. Usually, non alcoholic non tap water is not way cheaper, especially if it is a “mocktail”. Of course, some portion is also high rents. And I have never seen a restaurant or bar outside of Costco with free refills for anything other than tap water thoug…

Lots of places around me have free refills on fountain soft drinks and tea. In fact, it is pretty rare for a restaurant to not have free refills on things like sodas. Something fancier like a craft lemonade or whatever wouldn't have free refills though. This is true for a lot of the places I travel to within the US as well.

Interesting. I’m most familiar with west coast and northeast, and can’t say I have ever seen that.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#446
post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bunch of places now have "mocktails" which are just cocktails without alcohol so you can one up your alcoholic friends by spending $3-5 per glass of sugar water.

Visit SF, you can easily spend $10 on a mocktail out here. Kinda makes sense, all the cost is in the labor and the cleaning, a shot of vodka is like $0.20

The spirit in a decent cocktail is closer to ~$3-5.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Growing up in Nashville I've frequently heard that religion is a prerequisite to ethics. While I disagree in principle, I struggle to come up with an example where philosophy and ethics are discussed in a secular setting outside of school(academia included) and politics. It would not surprise me that on the whole our society is worse off for lack of a widespread secular tradition of discussing these concepts with you…

It's always looked to me like from a first approximation, people just do whatever they want and come up with justifications. The smarter they are, the more elaborate the justification. I doubt I'm above it.

I think you're right, but that developing a sense of ethics and believing those ethics and morals down to your bones will make you not want to do certain things. People without empathy don't have trouble lying to, stealing from, or committing violence against other people - but those things feel wrong to me intrinsically, because I was raised to feel empathy. But empathy is taught. Seemingly immoral things can be everyday occurrences. For example, it used to be acceptable for husbands to beat their wives up, and now it's not. Probably most people truly believe it's immoral now, unless they grew up with their father regularly beating their mother.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#448

Well, yes, we've doubled down on mediating social interactions through economic relationships. Most of the interactions adults have in their lives are with or in the framing of economic relations. Homes, are being invaded with tablets and mobile devices which bring along with them framing interactions as economic relations through ad and consumer frames. Workplaces are inherently settings of economic relations, and t…

This is so true. I'm a practicing Catholic which gives me the advantage of having access to a big community and I even met my wife through Church events after Mass so it's wonderful. Also our Church offers many other programs like counseling, support groups, volunteering, career opportunities, etc. Of course no one should be forced to attend "Church" just to find a community, that's silly but its benefits are pretty…

> people are not having children and thus it creates a further sense of isolation and loneliness

I don't know about that, I think in the US it's more that parents end up spending more time with other parents than anything, notably because kids are overscheduled, so as a childless person you don't see folks with children as much.

> at 10PM streets are bursting with activities and it's very easy to find people to connect with

I mean yes, if you have children and you have to be back at work at 9am, most folks aren't going to the bar every day (although those types of people do exist!)

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#449

Well, yes, we've doubled down on mediating social interactions through economic relationships. Most of the interactions adults have in their lives are with or in the framing of economic relations. Homes, are being invaded with tablets and mobile devices which bring along with them framing interactions as economic relations through ad and consumer frames. Workplaces are inherently settings of economic relations, and t…

I'm in my 30s but I'm feeling this so hard. Growing up we used to have these kid/youth centres that were run by local Catholic organizations. We used to hang out there after school. Ostensibly the point was that there'd be 30 minutes of catechism doctrine, but we didn't really care about that. To us it was just a the place where everyone would be. I miss that so much. A place where you can just go and meet people you…

I think more broadly you’re talking about the concept of “third places” and this has been suggested as another reason for decline of community. However, my argument is that the Internet replaced the “third place” for most people given it’s where people are spending time in terms of attention and resources rather than necessarily physical presence.

Re: The upstream cause of the youth mental health crisis is the loss of community

#450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in my 30s but I'm feeling this so hard. Growing up we used to have these kid/youth centres that were run by local Catholic organizations. We used to hang out there after school. Ostensibly the point was that there'd be 30 minutes of catechism doctrine, but we didn't really care about that. To us it was just a the place where everyone would be. I miss that so much. A place where you can just go and meet people you…

Consider the following: 1. The chief unit and source of community is the family. The married couple, the family, have been deteriorating for some time. It shouldn't be surprising that the consequences would spread outward. Societies are a manner of extended family organized according to the principle of subsidiary. 2. American culture especially is hyperindividualistic. It conceives of people not as persons, but as i…

> The chief unit and source of community is the family.

This view stems from Judeo-Christian beliefs. The very invention of marriage was a separation of community, where men wanted ownership of women and their children.

I also wonder if you're fully aware of how much you've attempted to repackage the original sin in your comment.

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