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Who Took the Cocaine Out of Coca-Cola?

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Re: Who Took the Cocaine Out of Coca-Cola?

#51

Post by argiopetech »

jrflowers wrote: post #42
argiopetech wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't suggest that there is no supportive evidence between race and drug policy, but that fact does not imply that there is a causal relationship in this case. Citing Nixon era documents to describe pre-WWI circumstances is evidence at least as poor as that which I presented.

The article itself cites in the first paragraph this much more detailed analysis of the topic, which may provide the historical context that you felt was lacking. https://www.jstor.org/stable/26391000?mag=who-took-the-cocai...

Thank you for this reference. I had overlooked it.

While this article confirms my assertion that whites were the majority of drug users, the drug of choice is stated to have been racially segregated (with whites preferring opiates).

Based on this, I'll accept (pending further research) that the southern bans on cocaine were racially motivated. I'd still consider the 1914 federal ban on a wider swath of drugs to be less so.

Re: Who Took the Cocaine Out of Coca-Cola?

#52

Post by argiopetech »

j16sdiz wrote: post #47
meroes wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My drug use has stopped when Im at my poorest simply because I can’t afford it. Without some sources I’m not even willing to get past your first premise.

Drugs become expensive only after they have been prohibited, no?

Particularly those you can grow yourself (cocaine, cannabis, opium), until the law burns your field.

Re: Who Took the Cocaine Out of Coca-Cola?

#53

Post by gamblor956 »

jrflowers wrote: post #11
argiopetech wrote: post #4

While framed as a "black and mixed-race working class vs white middle class" conflict, the remainder of the article suggests that burgeoning recreational use of the pure drug informed removal of that drug from a drink where it was included in sub-therapeutic doses (9mg/drink vs 50-75mg in a recreational "dose" [0]). It's unclear to me, as written, how race was causal and why it's included as in the article. There are…

>The insistence on its insertion into other areas, lacking supporting evidence, is, imho, overtly harmful to discourse. There is a lack of supporting evidence that race has historically been a deciding factor in US drug policy in the same way that there is a lack of supporting evidence for the historical existence of the Romans. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5614457/ https://www.case.org/system/files/m…

People should read their citations...

The case.org publication clearly states that Anslinger's first-hand exposure to drug addiction as a child in a poor neighborhood that drove his drug policy. After his personal story failed to convince legislators, he used minorities as scapegoats to get drug legislation to pass. His career demonstrates that this was not personal animus against minorities; Anslinger hired several dozen African-American agents at the FBN over the objectives of his staff; the first Chinese-American law-enforcement officer in America (and indeed, is credited as launching one of the first diversity initiatives in the federal government). Also, Anslinger really hated hippies, regardless of race (and most hippies were white), because of their excessive drug use.

The NIH article assumes a racial bias exists in drug policy without bothering to prove it.

Drug policies have had a disparate racial impact but this is not the same thing as having been intended to be based on race. It's simply that different racial groups in the U.S. use drugs to different degrees.

Re: Who Took the Cocaine Out of Coca-Cola?

#54

Post by bongodongobob »

evandev wrote: post #26
thisisauserid wrote: post #19

I dunno 'bout that: "Was Cocaine once an ingredient in Coca-cola? No, there’s never been any cocaine added in Coca‑Cola and there never will be." https://www.coca-cola.com/mv/en/about-us/faq/was-cocaine-onc... Is someone suggesting they would obfuscate their sacred history?

Technically there was never cocaine in coca-cola. It was the coca leaf that was added which is the raw material used to make cocaine.

"cocaine" is just concentrated coca leaf. There's no chemical transformation happening. It's a purification process, like mint or vanilla extract.

Re: Who Took the Cocaine Out of Coca-Cola?

#55

Post by dissent »

swatcoder wrote: post #13
argiopetech wrote: post #4

While framed as a "black and mixed-race working class vs white middle class" conflict, the remainder of the article suggests that burgeoning recreational use of the pure drug informed removal of that drug from a drink where it was included in sub-therapeutic doses (9mg/drink vs 50-75mg in a recreational "dose" [0]). It's unclear to me, as written, how race was causal and why it's included as in the article. There are…

People write about history through the lens of their specialty and personal interests, which is what the author of the underlying article was doing when they published in their academic journal, Southern Culture . The author has a lot of insight and foreknowledge into their field of expertise and can situate this story within that context better than others can, and more deeply (probably) than they could do in some o…

This is all well and good, except we all know the current zeitgeist is to go to any length necessary to frame absolutely everything in terms of race. As a reader, it's hard to distinguish between that and genuine academic interest. I now tend to close the tab the moment race is mentioned. I'm glad I don't live in the USA, it must be awful.

Re: Who Took the Cocaine Out of Coca-Cola?

#56

Post by koonsolo »

mptest wrote: post #7
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #3

TL; DR “While the medical profession had seen nothing wrong with tonics such as Coca-Cola advertising themselves to white, middle-class consumers for their aphrodisiac qualities, it became an entirely different matter when Black people used cocaine... Candler fought back against the damage that cocaine’s declining reputation did to his brand’s reputation, arguing that the small quantity of coca extract in Coke was me…

>"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people," former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper's writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday. >"You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuan…

You quote a very US centric reason. So why aren't any other countries legalizing it?

Re: Who Took the Cocaine Out of Coca-Cola?

#57

Post by krispyfi »

koonsolo wrote: post #56
mptest wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people," former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper's writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday. >"You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuan…

You quote a very US centric reason. So why aren't any other countries legalizing it?

Treaties like the Single Convention on Narcotic Drugs as well as political pressure from the US Government.

Re: Who Took the Cocaine Out of Coca-Cola?

#58

Post by TimK65 »

sdwr wrote: post #34
margalabargala wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disagree, it's like saying that jet fuel doesn't have plastic in it. They're both made from crude oil but they are totally different and do not contain one another. No one claims cocaine contains coca-cola.

Cocaine is present in coca leaf. Coca-Cola is not present in coca leaf. Coca-Cola contained coca leaf contains cocaine (in small amounts?) Cocaine is made from coca leaf (which does not contain Coca-Cola)

Coca-Cola is still made with coca leaf, but today, it's decocainized. (And since it's impossible to remove 100% of the cocaine molecules from the coca leaf, Coca-Cola still contains extremely tiny trace amounts of cocaine.)

Re: Who Took the Cocaine Out of Coca-Cola?

#59

Post by pas »

koonsolo wrote: post #56
mptest wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people," former Nixon domestic policy chief John Ehrlichman told Harper's writer Dan Baum for the April cover story published Tuesday. >"You understand what I'm saying? We knew we couldn't make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuan…

You quote a very US centric reason. So why aren't any other countries legalizing it?

Germany recently moved a big step toward legalizing pot.

Psylocibin and MDMA are getting established (again after many decades) in psychotherapy in the US.

In general consumption of many hard drugs are tolerated legally and in practice in lot of places around the world.

...

That said heroin, homelessness, mental illnesses and addiction are simply things with a "nuisance profile" and has a super high correlation to crime. So it's not surprising they get the prohibition treatment.

Re: Who Took the Cocaine Out of Coca-Cola?

#60

Post by Spooky23 »

gamblor956 wrote: post #53
jrflowers wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The insistence on its insertion into other areas, lacking supporting evidence, is, imho, overtly harmful to discourse. There is a lack of supporting evidence that race has historically been a deciding factor in US drug policy in the same way that there is a lack of supporting evidence for the historical existence of the Romans. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5614457/ https://www.case.org/system/files/m…

People should read their citations... The case.org publication clearly states that Anslinger's first-hand exposure to drug addiction as a child in a poor neighborhood that drove his drug policy. After his personal story failed to convince legislators, he used minorities as scapegoats to get drug legislation to pass. His career demonstrates that this was not personal animus against minorities; Anslinger hired several…

I think that you’re taking the most charitable view of Anslinger’s conduct possible.

You’re essentially arguing that because he hired a few black DEA agents, his vilification propaganda campaigns and pandering to the Jim Crow crowd in congress to get support wasn’t “intended” to target people based on their race.

You can split hairs that his actions were in conflict with his true feelings I suppose. But additions tend to speak louder than words, and brutal oppression of racial groups motivated by careerism is equally repugnant.

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