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Why doesn't advice work?

dynomight.substack.com

321–330 of 334 posts

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#321

The rules I have for myself when giving advice are: 1. Unsolicited advice is always criticism. 2. LISTEN TO THEIR ACTUAL PROBLEM ALL THE WAY. 3. Never tell someone what they should do, tell them what you would do in that situation. 4. Remember that the purpose of giving advice is just to illuminate options, not to have someone follow what you recommend to the letter. 5. As the advice giver understand that you could b…

These are gold. Worth a printout next to the monitor. Especially number one.

That means a lot thank you :)

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#322
post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Never tell someone what they should do, tell them what you would do in that situation. This is great. It's empathetic and much more likely to be heard and received.

I often find myself taking this approach, but it’s still manipulative because it’s just me masking the fact that I’m really just trying to tell them what to do.

[deleted]

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#323
post #260
post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also this is what all advice sounds like to new parents. If you want to be an ally to someone who's just had a baby, don't give unsolicited advice - they're hearing enough of it from the numerous people who want to talk all about "future problems you definitely need to avoid now " to someone who hasn't had more then 2 hours of uninterrupted sleep.

Does that really happen? In my experience parents giving advice to other parents generally sound like “I don’t really know what I’m doing, nor your child, but this worked for us.” The wild variety of advice is a good indication there is no true answer.

I'm not a parent so I can't say for sure but I've listened to lots of my child-having friends complain about the older members of their family constantly giving "advice" that is actually just veiled defensiveness and projection.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always laughed at tony robbins giving advice to 40k people in a stadium all at once. Unless it's "make you bed in the morning" level generality, it can't possibly apply to everyone at once. You need to know who you are talking to first before you can give them real advice.

Robbins would likely laugh at your comment for getting him completely arse backwards. He's not there to preach to the many, well, not yet at least, he's there for the fewer to self select out and come forward to next level grooming. The Race Track advice grift works by giving 100 prospects each one of ten horses as a sure bet; at the end of a ten horse race 10 punters come forward wanting more advice, each convinced…

Well ok but i'm just talking about the content itself, not his motivations.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#325
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opposite of this may be true. 1. If you are a doctor seeing another person give dangerous medical advice, it may be your civic and moral responsibility to intervene. 2. I’m smart and I have a lot of problems. Only some of them are interesting challenges (math problems… no hints!). The rest I don’t care about. 3. The only time my wife complains is when she wants a solution. Because she thinks complaining for no re…

> 3. The only time my wife complains is when she wants a solution. Because she thinks complaining for no reason is for lazy people. I want to offer a different perspective. I sometimes complain that I live in an apartment that is too hot in the summer and lacks certain things like enough electric outlets and storage space. The rent is super cheap, so I will not move and houses are too expensive to buy. I also love li…

I hear you. My family and me do that, too.

Perhaps it's evident from the topic and tone when it's a cathartic complaint vs. an imperial complaint.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#326
Different people have different communication styles. It helps if we recognize that. As advice givers, and as advice receivers. Recognizing that difference exists is a huge step in understanding how this works. Don't worry, it will still blow up in your face.

If you know someone tends to want to vent, well, let them vent and only later offer, rather than give advice - if even that. They just like to vent. Fair.

If you know someone would love support that actually listens to the problem and thinks and offers words beyond the cliché. Well, then it will be well received. Fair also.

The problem is when you think venting is the only thing people do. Because then you can't be supportive in the way someone wants who is not venting. Or when you are oblivious and venting never came to your mind because that's not your communication style. And it shocks you when your advice is received with annoyance or anger.

Different people are different.

So now you can read the rest of the comments with a different perspective. Let's pick one: "Smart people want to solve their own problems." Well, actually... SOME smart people would love some support now and then even while they are smart. It's possible to be smart enough to understand that a different viewpoint or experience can be valuable. Most likely what the smart person doesn't want is the most bog standard cliché in response to their distress: they are smart, they found that cliché in their first google search a few years ago.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#327
post #183

Hard lessons I've learned: 1. It doesn't matter what your title is, how much expert education, training, or experience you have, or even what hard lessons that you have learned: you are not an "expert" in an area unless you are invited in as an "expert". Put another way, unsolicited advice is unwelcome. 2. Smart people want to solve their own problems. Don't offer solutions. No one will feel empowered or much of a se…

Many times I've been invited as an expert - and I've always said - I'm no expert, but I guess I'm better than the average.

I give advice once - after it's on you - smart people listen - dumb people prefer to try on their own.

What I've seen in the past few years - regret is hard pill to swallow.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#328
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I developed something like this, but it manifests more as "question everything until it makes sense to me. " I feel like I'm constitutionally incapable of taking anybody's word for anything, but it's vastly worse for anyone who reacts with hostility to my questions about points that don't make sense to me. It was very much trained into me by my father that following the advice of those people leads to suffering and p…

> manifests more as "question everything until it makes sense to me." This is called "critical thinking" -- at least when combined with a decent amount of existing topical knowledge to be able to ask good questions -- and is rather useful for all sorts of things.

It's surprising and disappointing how rarely it goes over well. It's led me to believe most people deserve to feel "impostor syndrome."

One of my favorite feelings is the one I get when I have an opportunity to change my mind because someone has better information about a topic than I do and is willing to share it with me so I can come to the same conclusion they have, rather than the one I had because I was ignorant of certain information.

I always hope professionals, whom I expect to be experts in their subjects, enjoy their subject enough that they are better informed than I am about it, so I tend to ask a lot of questions. It is extremely rare that I find one who takes this well.

My mechanic is a glowing exception on this front. He actually specializes in my kind of car (old Priuses, not something fancy), and when he tells me X, Y, and/or Z are wrong with it and what he needs to do to fix it, if I ask questions, he can easily identify what knowledge I'm missing, and happily just explains it to me. As an intelligent, curious person, I love interacting with experts like this and will happily pay more to do so. And he seems to enjoy talking about his subject, even with someone who knows a lot less about it than he does.

But my doctors? Especially "specialists"? Absolutely opposite experience on every front. They loathe my questions, and treat me with contempt for daring to question their authority, even when I'm trying to ask about recent research papers and have previously read all their citations. I'm not a doctor, but I do know how to read papers, and especially for a chronic condition I have, I've read a lot. I'm not some random person coming in with a file of advice from "Doctor Google." If anything, I know quite a bit more about my condition than I do about my car, even though my history with each is about the same length.

I don't know if it has to do with the respective systems the two kinds of experts operate in or what (my mechanic's education was not as long or as arduous, and since he operates independently, it's up to him to decide how much time he wants to spend with me and what to charge me), but it's a disappointing world for an inquisitive critical thinker.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#329
One of the most frustrating things in life is dealing with someone who says one thing, but really feels a different way (this is obvious after writing it down). Consider someone who is asking for advice for a problem that they don't really want to solve. i.e. somebody is overweight, but they don't really want to change anything about their lifestyle to lose weight. They value the food they eat and their activities more than any consequences they might bring. So, any advice given to them on losing weight would be dead on arrival - but the receiver would never admit that.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#330
Often people don’t want advice, often people have stupid ideas and come to you for advice, hoping you’ll confirm their stupid idea is great. Then they have somebody to blame when the whole thing will blow up.

If you contradict them, they get upset.

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