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Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

shwin.co

101–110 of 372 posts

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#101
Umberto Eco had already discussed this extensively in his paper “the combinatorics of creativity”.

Unfortunately, I couldn't find the English version, but it should be very easy to translate, it's only 16 pages.

http://www.umbertoeco.it/CV/Combinatoria%20della%20creativit...

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#102
post #91
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What I find instead, is that by just processing novel information, especially if I focus on analysing it, my brain internalizes insights and builds model of that type of thing" Sorry, but this is memoization.

What do you call it when you remember things so you can repeat them but you can't generalize? E.g. if you learn a poem or phrase in a foreign language, but can't reuse the words in different contexts? Or being able to recite a rule, but not automatically applying it? Is there a word for this? Similarly, we should have a word for knowing how to reuse something in a different context, but not recall its origin or its c…

> What do you call it when you remember things so you can repeat them but you can't generalize? E.g. if you learn a poem or phrase in a foreign language, but can't reuse the words in different contexts? Or being able to recite a rule, but not automatically applying it?

"Rote memorization"

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#103
post #101

Umberto Eco had already discussed this extensively in his paper “the combinatorics of creativity”. Unfortunately, I couldn't find the English version, but it should be very easy to translate, it's only 16 pages. http://www.umbertoeco.it/CV/Combinatoria%20della%20creativit...

Thanks for the link. Didn't know the text.

I found an English translation here:

- https://w4nderlu.st/media/pages/publications/combinatorics-o...

Translated by Piero Molino at https://w4nderlu.st/publications

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#104
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What I find instead, is that by just processing novel information, especially if I focus on analysing it, my brain internalizes insights and builds model of that type of thing" Sorry, but this is memoization.

I feel like every reply making a point against memorisation would benefit from having their definition of what is memorization, because every single one of those replies sound like they're still implicitly describing some sort of memorization as the better way

I feel like this is about the difference between rote/explicit memorization and organic/implicit/tacit memorization, for a lack of better words. I suspect the former could narrow/restrict your understanding because it may be constrained/limited by the vocabulary/definition itself.

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#105
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I can agree, as an extremely creative person with extremely bad memory - to a point where I pretty much never memorize anything , whether intentionally or by accident. What I find instead, is that by just processing novel information, especially if I focus on analysing it, my brain internalizes insights and builds model of that type of thing, allowing me to either imperfectly reconstruct what I've seen,…

"What I find instead, is that by just processing novel information, especially if I focus on analysing it, my brain internalizes insights and builds model of that type of thing" Sorry, but this is memoization.

Modeling is not memorization. It's more generic and can't allow you to reproduce the memorized information, only describe its underlying structure.

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#106
post #101

Umberto Eco had already discussed this extensively in his paper “the combinatorics of creativity”. Unfortunately, I couldn't find the English version, but it should be very easy to translate, it's only 16 pages. http://www.umbertoeco.it/CV/Combinatoria%20della%20creativit...

Thanks for the link. Didn't know the text. I found an English translation here: - https://w4nderlu.st/media/pages/publications/combinatorics-o... Translated by Piero Molino at https://w4nderlu.st/publications

Oh wonderful. I hope you can find time to read it! Umberto Eco was one of the most important modern Italian philosophers.

I love his pragmatic and rational approach.

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#107

"Repetitio est mater studiorum" - repetition is the mother of learning. My creative writing professor, of all people, used to repeat this three times before every class. He was my favorite teacher at any level.

I fear not the man who has practiced 10,000 kicks once, but I fear the man who has practiced one kick 10,000 times.

Bruce Lee

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#108
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What I find instead, is that by just processing novel information, especially if I focus on analysing it, my brain internalizes insights and builds model of that type of thing" Sorry, but this is memoization.

I feel like every reply making a point against memorisation would benefit from having their definition of what is memorization, because every single one of those replies sound like they're still implicitly describing some sort of memorization as the better way

I think perhaps there's a confusion of "memorization" with "rote memorization". The word "rote" connotes flashcards and dull drills, but memorization by itself, to me at least, is more like "a focused attempt at internalizing information", in whatever way that means to a person, as opposed to just ingesting it or letting it wash over you/osmosis.

But that's just my interpretation of the terms. I don't know what the "official" meanings are.

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their art and entertainment in many cases are rebellions and critiques from mainstream norms. The funny thing is that if you have a rigid conformist society, the rejects are going to double down on the "weird" much more than a well adjusted creative would.

>Their art and entertainment in many cases are rebellions and critiques from mainstream norms No, that's just the art that Western readers notice because that's the only thing they recognize as art in the first place. Calligraphy (in China traditionally considered the most important form of visual art) for example has an astonishing tradition in East Asia, also notably related to the topic of the thread, memorization…

I found asian genres to be way more diverse and creative then western entertainment even when they dont criticize anything.

Western entertainment tend to produce the same story, in like, two genres, again and again and again and again. Most of the time you can predict the movie storyline down to minute - and people will argue that it is the only correct way.

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely disagree with your assertion that "...rote memorization is neither necessary nor sufficient to internalize concepts." I would recommend reading the book Moonwalking with Einstein . There is a lot of discussion there on how memory is linked directly to creativity, and to understanding concepts deeply. --- A choice passage: "... If the essence of creativity is linking disparate facts and ideas, then the mo…

Didn't Einstein say that don't memorise what you can look up? E.g. nothing nowadays since we have the Internet.

All of us over here memorizing words to speak instead of looking up each word each time...
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