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Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

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Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#81

Post by XenophileJKO »

Sammi wrote: post #77
Llamamoe wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think I can agree, as an extremely creative person with extremely bad memory - to a point where I pretty much never memorize anything , whether intentionally or by accident. What I find instead, is that by just processing novel information, especially if I focus on analysing it, my brain internalizes insights and builds model of that type of thing, allowing me to either imperfectly reconstruct what I've seen,…

"What I find instead, is that by just processing novel information, especially if I focus on analysing it, my brain internalizes insights and builds model of that type of thing" Sorry, but this is memoization.

Is it? If I don't remember any of the detail, but just the general "feel" of the concept.. is that memorization?

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#83

Post by naasking »

tikhonj wrote: post #11

"a flash of inspiration connecting internalized concepts" Well, okay, but rote memorization is neither necessary nor sufficient to internalize concepts. One of the reasons people make fun of the author's approach to creativity is that systematic memorization fundamentally can't teach taste —so the systematic approach reeks of awkward, try-hard, low-brow, tasteless art. More broadly, memorization doesn't help much wit…

> Memorization in programming gives us architecture astronauts and design-pattern soup rather than elegant code.

Elegance is probably orthogonal to creativity, and likely follows from some kind of minimization principle, like minimum program length. You are effectively distilling the "essence" of something from all of the noise.

Creativity seems different, more like novelty, and creativity following some kind of remix of memorized elements + some randomization seems very plausible.

You can create something novel but not elegant, and something elegant but not novel, and you can distill an elegant version of something novel that your or someone else created and that's the best of all creations.

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#84

Post by naasking »

kqr wrote: post #60

I was the sort of person who did not believe in memorisation as a solution for anything. Then I tried getting really good at spaced repetition for a year (yes, it is a skill that needs to be trained for good results) and I've completely changed my mind. Spaced repetition allows me to become proficient even in things I don't get the natural opportunity to practise daily, so that when the day comes and I need them, I h…

You're always memorizing something at some level, even in math where you can derive so much after memorizing some core concepts and deductions.

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#85

Post by watwut »

shw1n wrote: post #26
singleshot_ wrote: post #25

This claim makes little sense because it fails to distinguish between memory and memorization. I memorize almost nothing, but I remember the broad strokes of a lot of things. This allows me to be creative. In a way, memorization is a severe risk: if you memorized something before it changed, for example, your creativity may not mean much.

Hey thanks for reading! What I was trying to convey is that fundamentally learning is memorization, whether conscious "rote memorization" or more less-intentional committing to memory from doing an activity And that recognizing this allows us to speed up the process of learning fundamentals Which in turn enables creativity as most people see it

Conscious memorization and rote memorization are two different things. I can intentionally put things into memory without doing rote memorization - or even intentionally avoiding rote memorization. The techniques you use also give you different results in terms of whether or how you use the memorized concept or word in foreign language. (For example getting the effect where you can translate a word between foreign and your language, but can not use it foreign language sentence and do not understand it in context without translating.)

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#86

Post by [deleted] »

wokwokwok wrote: post #45

Is there anything substantive here? It’s just a bunch of arbitrary unprovable assertions. Everyone here seems to have, broadly speaking; neither a) the qualifications to knowledgeably comment of the (honestly poorly understood, afaik) function of “creativity” or b) anything more meaningful than “here is my naive personal lived experience and opinion” to contribute on the topic. It’s just armchair psychology. If you w…

[deleted]

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#88

Post by kreetx »

wokwokwok wrote: post #45

Is there anything substantive here? It’s just a bunch of arbitrary unprovable assertions. Everyone here seems to have, broadly speaking; neither a) the qualifications to knowledgeably comment of the (honestly poorly understood, afaik) function of “creativity” or b) anything more meaningful than “here is my naive personal lived experience and opinion” to contribute on the topic. It’s just armchair psychology. If you w…

You'll experience the creativity outlined in the article directly when you start doing deliberate memorization, i.e spaced repetition. No qualification needed.

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#89

Post by jaggederest »

XenophileJKO wrote: post #81
Sammi wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"What I find instead, is that by just processing novel information, especially if I focus on analysing it, my brain internalizes insights and builds model of that type of thing" Sorry, but this is memoization.

Is it? If I don't remember any of the detail, but just the general "feel" of the concept.. is that memorization?

https://qbi.uq.edu.au/brain-basics/memory/types-memory

Re: Creativity fundamentally comes from memorization?

#90

Post by mewpmewp2 »

knighthack wrote: post #34
tikhonj wrote: post #11

"a flash of inspiration connecting internalized concepts" Well, okay, but rote memorization is neither necessary nor sufficient to internalize concepts. One of the reasons people make fun of the author's approach to creativity is that systematic memorization fundamentally can't teach taste —so the systematic approach reeks of awkward, try-hard, low-brow, tasteless art. More broadly, memorization doesn't help much wit…

I completely disagree with your assertion that "...rote memorization is neither necessary nor sufficient to internalize concepts." I would recommend reading the book Moonwalking with Einstein . There is a lot of discussion there on how memory is linked directly to creativity, and to understanding concepts deeply. --- A choice passage: "... If the essence of creativity is linking disparate facts and ideas, then the mo…

Didn't Einstein say that don't memorise what you can look up? E.g. nothing nowadays since we have the Internet.
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