Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why doesn't advice work?

dynomight.substack.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 334 posts

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#281

Post by bankcust08385 »

ryanmcbride wrote: post #98

The rules I have for myself when giving advice are: 1. Unsolicited advice is always criticism. 2. LISTEN TO THEIR ACTUAL PROBLEM ALL THE WAY. 3. Never tell someone what they should do, tell them what you would do in that situation. 4. Remember that the purpose of giving advice is just to illuminate options, not to have someone follow what you recommend to the letter. 5. As the advice giver understand that you could b…

> 1. Unsolicited advice is always criticism.

That's an extreme and catastrophizing take. There is often hidden feedback buried in most criticism. Feedback is gold. Take it all with a grain of salt but don't be so arrogant as to discount unsolicited feedback entirely.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#282

Post by rramadass »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #10

It sounds like the author is coming from a places of intellect and might be missing more of the emotional reasons people don't follow advice. Intellectual-emotional dissonance is one of the biggest reasons people don't do things they know they should [1] be doing. We often have the mistaken approach that if we pile on more intellectual reasons why we should take the advice that the logic will outweigh our emotions an…

Very Right. I have come to the conclusion that it is mostly Emotions/Feelings over Intellect/Rationality though they are interlinked together. To suppress the former and give free reign to the latter takes a lot of self-control which can easily crumble when the right buttons (sometimes unknowingly) get pushed. One way to control this is to minimize all externalities which could trigger an emotional response eg. it is easier to have a rational conversation via simple text (various modes) vs. face-to-face where tonal/non-verbal cues can trigger unwarranted emotional responses derailing from the subject at hand; Biology, Psychology, Operant Conditioning etc. are all relevant here.

See also The Rationality Paradox: Balancing Logic and Emotion - https://fastercapital.com/content/The-Rationality-Paradox--B...

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#283

Post by humanfromearth9 »

nox101 wrote: post #151
rdtsc wrote: post #19

> And for producers of advice: Step 0 I think should be "maybe don't give advice". You want to help, you think you're really good, you think it will improve things, but that's not how other people see it. They may seem like they need advice or seem like they are asking for it between the lines, but they just really want to unload or chit chat, or share some difficulty. The answer to that is sometimes to listen and no…

My daughter said she's planning on going to try heroin, fentanyl, and meth this weekend with some friends. Should I give her advice?

Instead of giving advice, you may show her what these things do to people, and ask her if that's what she wants in her life. Also show her what hard work, focus and dedication does to successful people.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#284

Post by 7bit »

satisfice wrote: post #269
efitz wrote: post #183

Hard lessons I've learned: 1. It doesn't matter what your title is, how much expert education, training, or experience you have, or even what hard lessons that you have learned: you are not an "expert" in an area unless you are invited in as an "expert". Put another way, unsolicited advice is unwelcome. 2. Smart people want to solve their own problems. Don't offer solutions. No one will feel empowered or much of a se…

The opposite of this may be true. 1. If you are a doctor seeing another person give dangerous medical advice, it may be your civic and moral responsibility to intervene. 2. I’m smart and I have a lot of problems. Only some of them are interesting challenges (math problems… no hints!). The rest I don’t care about. 3. The only time my wife complains is when she wants a solution. Because she thinks complaining for no re…

> 3. The only time my wife complains is when she wants a solution. Because she thinks complaining for no reason is for lazy people.

I want to offer a different perspective.

I sometimes complain that I live in an apartment that is too hot in the summer and lacks certain things like enough electric outlets and storage space. The rent is super cheap, so I will not move and houses are too expensive to buy. I also love living in that area cause my friends and job are near. I really don't want to hear people's advice, when; complain, because I've heard it all before and there is no solution to my problem that does not involve a ton of money.

I just want to complain because that and feeling empathy reduces stress and the keeps me healthy.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#285

Post by m463 »

efitz wrote: post #183

Hard lessons I've learned: 1. It doesn't matter what your title is, how much expert education, training, or experience you have, or even what hard lessons that you have learned: you are not an "expert" in an area unless you are invited in as an "expert". Put another way, unsolicited advice is unwelcome. 2. Smart people want to solve their own problems. Don't offer solutions. No one will feel empowered or much of a se…

4. Your spouse wants to give advice.

(don't know how to fix this btw. It might be a boundary issue, it might be something to smile and accept, it might be an unresolvable relationship issue...)

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#286

Post by watwut »

meken wrote: post #140
throwawayq3423 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Never tell someone what they should do, tell them what you would do in that situation. This is great. It's empathetic and much more likely to be heard and received.

I often find myself taking this approach, but it’s still manipulative because it’s just me masking the fact that I’m really just trying to tell them what to do.

It is not manipulative if you actually mean it that way. People get insulted over others not taking their advice, reacting with "I told you so" or repeating it and trying to force others.

Meanwhile, those who are just saying what they would do are not invested into what other person will do, they state what they would do and move on.

It is not just phrasing, it is also mindset that shows up in your other interactions.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#287

Post by rk06 »

makeitdouble wrote: post #216
efitz wrote: post #183

Hard lessons I've learned: 1. It doesn't matter what your title is, how much expert education, training, or experience you have, or even what hard lessons that you have learned: you are not an "expert" in an area unless you are invited in as an "expert". Put another way, unsolicited advice is unwelcome. 2. Smart people want to solve their own problems. Don't offer solutions. No one will feel empowered or much of a se…

> 3. Your spouse just wants to vent, UNLESS they say "fix it" Or talk to your spouse, get to know them, and build a sense of what they absolutely need to know (e.g. you don't want or can't spend the rest of your life doing it for them and no one else will), what they don't need to care about, and what space of mind they're in. You're hopefully stuck with them for a very long time, investing time and effort to underst…

has this really worked for you? cause from my experience, not only is OP right, but you are are effectively telling your spouse that "we are serious business, pointless venting is not acceptable behaviour"

I highly recommend you to read this post on giving better advises: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41113807

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#288

Post by junto »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #261
efitz wrote: post #183

Hard lessons I've learned: 1. It doesn't matter what your title is, how much expert education, training, or experience you have, or even what hard lessons that you have learned: you are not an "expert" in an area unless you are invited in as an "expert". Put another way, unsolicited advice is unwelcome. 2. Smart people want to solve their own problems. Don't offer solutions. No one will feel empowered or much of a se…

> 2. Smart people want to solve their own problems. Don't offer solutions. No one will feel empowered or much of a sense of accomplishment implementing your solution. Instead tell them the challenges that they will face for various options and let them draw their own conclusions. Replace "smart" by "dumb" and I'll agree. You're not smart if you reject spoon-fed solutions purely for ego-related reasons.

Instead of dumb, maybe arrogance is closer to why people reject such solutions?

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#289

Post by teddyh »

fragmede wrote: post #177
teddyh wrote: post #109

“Be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia. Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth.” — Mary Schmich

Ladies and gentlemen of the class of '99 Wear sunscreen If I could offer you only one tip for the future, sunscreen would be it A long-term benefits of sunscreen have been proved by scientists Whereas the rest of my advice has no basis more reliable Than my own meandering experience, I will dispense this advice now Enjoy the power and beauty of your youth, oh, never mind You will not understand the power and beauty o…

Mary Schmich wrote that, not Baz Luhrmann.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#290

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

efitz wrote: post #183

Hard lessons I've learned: 1. It doesn't matter what your title is, how much expert education, training, or experience you have, or even what hard lessons that you have learned: you are not an "expert" in an area unless you are invited in as an "expert". Put another way, unsolicited advice is unwelcome. 2. Smart people want to solve their own problems. Don't offer solutions. No one will feel empowered or much of a se…

> 3. Your spouse just wants to vent, UNLESS they say "fix it" in which case they want you to fix it,

3a. When someone says "show me what I need to do" or similar, then they don't mean either "I need to vent" or "fix it for me".

They want to learn enough to take care of it themselves; and therefor fixing it for them - with the knowledge that the issue will recur and need the same conversation again - is a frustrating case of not listening to the real need.

Post reply on HN