Why doesn't advice work? • Hacker News Board

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#211

Post by twelve40 » Tue, Jul 30, 2024, 10:01 PM UTC

efitz wrote: post #183

Hard lessons I've learned: 1. It doesn't matter what your title is, how much expert education, training, or experience you have, or even what hard lessons that you have learned: you are not an "expert" in an area unless you are invited in as an "expert". Put another way, unsolicited advice is unwelcome. 2. Smart people want to solve their own problems. Don't offer solutions. No one will feel empowered or much of a se…

Lesson I learned from this comment: you can dish out as much of heavy-handed advice as your heart desires, as long as you preface it with the phrase "things i've learned"

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#212

Post by moshegramovsky » Tue, Jul 30, 2024, 10:03 PM UTC

efitz wrote: post #183

Hard lessons I've learned: 1. It doesn't matter what your title is, how much expert education, training, or experience you have, or even what hard lessons that you have learned: you are not an "expert" in an area unless you are invited in as an "expert". Put another way, unsolicited advice is unwelcome. 2. Smart people want to solve their own problems. Don't offer solutions. No one will feel empowered or much of a se…

Absolutely 100%.

I learned to keep my mouth shut and my life improved exponentially, if only from the energy savings alone.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#213

Post by throwawayq3423 » Tue, Jul 30, 2024, 10:05 PM UTC

Jensson wrote: post #166

throwawayq3423 wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> manipulative It's not manipulative to use techniques that increase the chances of your advice being heard and followed, it's just good communication.

Depends on your motives, people would absolutely call it manipulative if your motives were to make their lives worse to benefit yourself. Advice aren't always good for people.

> if your motives were to make their lives worse to benefit yourself

I guess I made an assumption that wasn't the case. Most people that have malign intentions aren't curious about these topics enough to discuss them openly.

"persuasion" gets a bad rap because most people assume you are persuading someone from a good place to bad. The opposite occurs often as well.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#214

Post by darkerside » Tue, Jul 30, 2024, 10:09 PM UTC

Nobody asked, but here's my advice on advice. Instead of giving advice, ask questions. Questions are much harder to ignore than advice, and they force the listener to think through their problem from a different perspective. If you master the art of asking questions, people will be solving their own problems during your conversation, and you'll never have to give advice again.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#215

Post by lmm » Tue, Jul 30, 2024, 10:16 PM UTC

efitz wrote: post #183

Hard lessons I've learned: 1. It doesn't matter what your title is, how much expert education, training, or experience you have, or even what hard lessons that you have learned: you are not an "expert" in an area unless you are invited in as an "expert". Put another way, unsolicited advice is unwelcome. 2. Smart people want to solve their own problems. Don't offer solutions. No one will feel empowered or much of a se…

[flagged]

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#216

Post by makeitdouble » Tue, Jul 30, 2024, 10:17 PM UTC

efitz wrote: post #183

Hard lessons I've learned: 1. It doesn't matter what your title is, how much expert education, training, or experience you have, or even what hard lessons that you have learned: you are not an "expert" in an area unless you are invited in as an "expert". Put another way, unsolicited advice is unwelcome. 2. Smart people want to solve their own problems. Don't offer solutions. No one will feel empowered or much of a se…

> 3. Your spouse just wants to vent, UNLESS they say "fix it"

Or talk to your spouse, get to know them, and build a sense of what they absolutely need to know (e.g. you don't want or can't spend the rest of your life doing it for them and no one else will), what they don't need to care about, and what space of mind they're in.

You're hopefully stuck with them for a very long time, investing time and effort to understand them, and skipping the generic heuristics is probably the only advice needed.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#217

Post by lmm » Tue, Jul 30, 2024, 10:20 PM UTC

throwawayq3423 wrote: post #162

meken wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I often find myself taking this approach, but it’s still manipulative because it’s just me masking the fact that I’m really just trying to tell them what to do.

> manipulative It's not manipulative to use techniques that increase the chances of your advice being heard and followed, it's just good communication.

Yes it is. If you say something that is less true because it's more likely to be followed, that's very clearly manipulation.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#218

Post by keybored » Tue, Jul 30, 2024, 10:20 PM UTC

s1artibartfast wrote: post #103

silverquiet wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow the nihilism always creeps in - the older I get the less I seem to be able to believe in anything, as the evidence accumulates that no one else does either. I suppose I'm one of those smart people who the OP suggested has pissed it all away, but I never really got what it was I was supposed to be doing.

I never quite understood nihilism as a problem. Why doesn't it mean that someone has a blank check to impose their own subjective meaning on life?

> Why doesn't it mean that someone has a blank check to impose their own subjective meaning on life?

I never understood Existentialism as a serious proposal.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#219

Post by squigz » Tue, Jul 30, 2024, 10:20 PM UTC

efitz wrote: post #183

Hard lessons I've learned: 1. It doesn't matter what your title is, how much expert education, training, or experience you have, or even what hard lessons that you have learned: you are not an "expert" in an area unless you are invited in as an "expert". Put another way, unsolicited advice is unwelcome. 2. Smart people want to solve their own problems. Don't offer solutions. No one will feel empowered or much of a se…

Unpacking #3 is fun. Like, yeah, often times people (not just spouses) want to vent, not receive actual advice. But "their mental model is wrong and they don't care to correct it"? That's unfair. Maybe they're just tired? Maybe your own mental model isn't the only correct one?

> even though it interrupted you and they could have fixed it themself.

Oh no, not being interrupted by having to help your partner!

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#220

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jul 30, 2024, 10:25 PM UTC

Einenlum wrote: post #191

intended wrote: post #128

The example in the article about climbing is “When in doubt, move your feet up.” For giving good advice, I’d say the answer is don’t give advice. It’s very rare to enjoy such a massive experience and information advantage that you can say “be the sword”, at just the right moment, to grant someone enlightenment. Good “advice” is work - you solve a problem. If you want to help , engage in problem solving. Which is mile…

> If asked a question, a common response from me would be:“this is the answer based on what you said, but it seems it would be obvious/ I suspect you have considered it. Am I missing something ?" Damn, I love this. Thank you!

[deleted]