You can't tell people anything http://habitatchronicles.com/2004/04/you-cant-tell-people-an...
Why doesn't advice work?
121–130 of 334 posts
Re: Why doesn't advice work?
#1222 days ago someone posted on FB a message protesting people for not wearing bike helmets on a nature trail. A 20ft wide dirt path bordering a river (as flat as it gets) that goes on for miles. There was serious push back. Mind your own beeswax. Advice can be seen as the slippery slope to coercion and manipulation.
I was once riding my scooter on a clean street with no cars or traffic anywhere around. The next thing I knew, I was regaining consciousness in front of first-responders.
If I wasn't wearing a helmet that day, they would be picking bits of skull out of my brain, and I wouldn't be able to type this comment.
Advice!
Re: Why doesn't advice work?
#123Earlier quoted context omitted.
I was at a bakery grand opening from an uneducated rural family. Plenty of their rural friends listened to the difficulties, wished them the best. Bring in the MBA + Industrial Engineer, and tell them some advice on processes, economics, and as a bonus, I was an Electrical Engineer for a few years so I had some advice on their oven problem. What is better? The person that says "You look beautiful", or "You have a pie…
Depends on context. If someone just needs the emotional energy to get back into the fight then a compliment is often what is needed. If someone is about to do something imminently that you see a correctable fault with and they don't then pointing it out is likely correct. So many people up here thinking there is always 1 exactly right course of action! Why?! Why do so many otherwise smart people fall back to the sill…
> So many people up here thinking there is always 1 exactly right course of action! Why?! Why do so many otherwise smart people fall back to the silliest of binary thinking and heuristics?
I was one of those. I know the answer: I wasn't/I'm not that intelligent. I learnt that being technically right is not as important as I thought (and I also learnt to care less about it specially when I'm surrounded by other technical people).
Re: Why doesn't advice work?
#124I've had a few experiences where someone asked for advice, and I shared something very earnestly, come to find out much later that the part of the advice that really stuck with them was some extraneous point of mine that was completely tangential to what I was being so earnest about.
I've also had a few experiences where someone gave me repeated advice that I rejected several times previous, until it finally "clicked" once.
I think the processing of advice is a communication; it takes two. The giver has to try, and the receiver has to be in a state that is receptive to hearing it. Neither side has full control. So overall, I think it's good to just keep trying, knowing that it'll only break through sometimes.
Re: Why doesn't advice work?
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
Somehow the nihilism always creeps in - the older I get the less I seem to be able to believe in anything, as the evidence accumulates that no one else does either. I suppose I'm one of those smart people who the OP suggested has pissed it all away, but I never really got what it was I was supposed to be doing.
I never quite understood nihilism as a problem. Why doesn't it mean that someone has a blank check to impose their own subjective meaning on life?
It doesn't feel like a blank check. You still gotta get up and go to work every day to pay the bills and then do whatever chores you can muster up the will and time to take care of.
Re: Why doesn't advice work?
#126I've had a few experiences where someone asked for advice, and I shared something very earnestly, come to find out much later that the part of the advice that really stuck with them was some extraneous point of mine that was completely tangential to what I was being so earnest about. I've also had a few experiences where someone gave me repeated advice that I rejected several times previous, until it finally "clicked…
Advice is tied to the individual giving it. What worked for them might work for you, but it worked given their circumstances, not yours.
Re: Why doesn't advice work?
#127The rules I have for myself when giving advice are: 1. Unsolicited advice is always criticism. 2. LISTEN TO THEIR ACTUAL PROBLEM ALL THE WAY. 3. Never tell someone what they should do, tell them what you would do in that situation. 4. Remember that the purpose of giving advice is just to illuminate options, not to have someone follow what you recommend to the letter. 5. As the advice giver understand that you could b…
> Never tell someone what they should do, tell them what you would do in that situation.
This is great. It's empathetic and much more likely to be heard and received.
Re: Why doesn't advice work?
#128The example in the article about climbing is
“When in doubt, move your feet up.”
For giving good advice, I’d say the answer is don’t give advice.
It’s very rare to enjoy such a massive experience and information advantage that you can say “be the sword”, at just the right moment, to grant someone enlightenment.
Good “advice” is work - you solve a problem.
If you want to help, engage in problem solving. Which is miles better than giving good advice.
Most people are able to solve their own problems.
Heck - how many times have you sought advice only to be told something you already knew?
Most of the time ?
Generally, people need space/ time to think, resources, or to learn something about the world/ themselves.
Even what I’m saying isn’t new to you. At most it’s formulated in a different order or style, but it’s not new.
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If asked a question, a common response from me would be:
“this is the answer based on what you said, but it seems it would be obvious/ I suspect you have considered it. Am I missing something ?”
Typically the answer is “yes” and then I get better information.
If the answer is no, then I check why something obvious was missed.
——
NB : Problem solving means actually solving things, not throwing your hands up when someone doesn’t ‘follow your solution’.
A workable solution - works.
Good engineering considers the real world limits of the participants.
Everyone wants to be healthier - it’s finding the motivation, time, type of exercise, and the rest that matter.
And thats work. You may have to search, come up with ideas, or bring some relevant experience and memories to bear.
Re: Why doesn't advice work?
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
I never quite understood nihilism as a problem. Why doesn't it mean that someone has a blank check to impose their own subjective meaning on life?
It doesn't feel like a blank check. You still gotta get up and go to work every day to pay the bills and then do whatever chores you can muster up the will and time to take care of.
I was thinking about meaning. My understanding is that nihilism is more about a lack of higher purpose, opposed to a lack of action.
I agree that work and chores are tough if you don't have a reason to be doing them. Similarly, will and motivation also require a goal, so that would be a challenge without one.
Re: Why doesn't advice work?
#130>> if in doubt, move your feet up
Language can only describe a tiny fraction of human experience. I think this is where language based advice for physical things starts to break down (e.g. please explain exactly how I should move my arm, hand and fingers to pick up a cup of coffee).