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Why doesn't advice work?

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Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#101

Post by lelanthran »

SoftTalker wrote: post #46
keiferski wrote: post #26

In a lot of situations, it is a social expectation to ask for advice, even if you have no intention of following it. At the same time, it is socially inappropriate to tell someone you don’t want their advice because you disagree with their opinions/life decisions/etc. Which is why, as a general rule, I think you should only take advice from people that have the same situation that you want to have - unless it’s negat…

This lines up with one of the best pieces of advice I've ever received: if you want to accomplish something, find someone who's done it successfully, and do what they do. Basically, follow a proven recipe for success. Don't try to figure everything out yourself, pretty much anything you might want to do has already been done, and done well, by someone.

> if you want to accomplish something, find someone who's done it successfully, and do what they do.

This is poor advice: every person accomplished in $FOO has had a large component consisting of luck.

You can do everything Steve Jobs, Bill Gates or Obama did, and still not get anywhere close to accomplishing what they did.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#102

Post by keiferski »

lelanthran wrote: post #101
SoftTalker wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This lines up with one of the best pieces of advice I've ever received: if you want to accomplish something, find someone who's done it successfully, and do what they do. Basically, follow a proven recipe for success. Don't try to figure everything out yourself, pretty much anything you might want to do has already been done, and done well, by someone.

> if you want to accomplish something, find someone who's done it successfully, and do what they do. This is poor advice: every person accomplished in $FOO has had a large component consisting of luck. You can do everything Steve Jobs, Bill Gates or Obama did, and still not get anywhere close to accomplishing what they did.

No, you can't teleport back to the beginning of the computer revolution, so you can't "do everything Steve Jobs or Bill Gates did."

Nor is this advice typically intended for some extreme example like becoming a billionaire or president. It's more like: if you want to have a successful marriage, imitate the guy that's been married for 25 years, don't listen to the advice of the twice divorced guy (unless he's telling you what not to do.)

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#103

Post by s1artibartfast »

silverquiet wrote: post #70
sickofparadox wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some combination of the above list should at least give an approximation of meaning. Or keep you busy enough you don't notice its absence.

Somehow the nihilism always creeps in - the older I get the less I seem to be able to believe in anything, as the evidence accumulates that no one else does either. I suppose I'm one of those smart people who the OP suggested has pissed it all away, but I never really got what it was I was supposed to be doing.

I never quite understood nihilism as a problem. Why doesn't it mean that someone has a blank check to impose their own subjective meaning on life?

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#104

Post by bradlys »

rmacqueen wrote: post #95
bradlys wrote: post #90

I’d be wary of following almost any romantic advice out there. People who are best qualified to give advice tend to give the least cause they know how little use there is in advice. This creates a scenario where the least useful advice is the most plenty because those with experience know that advice is useless. So many people have had the luxury of being physically attractive, in the right place at the right time, a…

"Just be yourself and the right person will come along!"

People with full bellies will give this same advice if you're starving. "Food will appear when you least expect it!"

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#105

Post by javier_e06 »

2 days ago someone posted on FB a message protesting people for not wearing bike helmets on a nature trail. A 20ft wide dirt path bordering a river (as flat as it gets) that goes on for miles.

There was serious push back. Mind your own beeswax.

Advice can be seen as the slippery slope to coercion and manipulation.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#106

Post by hooverd »

Context! As an advice giver, it's so simple, people /just/ need to do X and it will solve all their problems. As someone on the receiving end, it's always more complicated. Unless we're talking about like lifting or climbing advice.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#107

Post by gedy »

pdimitar wrote: post #49
rdtsc wrote: post #19

> And for producers of advice: Step 0 I think should be "maybe don't give advice". You want to help, you think you're really good, you think it will improve things, but that's not how other people see it. They may seem like they need advice or seem like they are asking for it between the lines, but they just really want to unload or chit chat, or share some difficulty. The answer to that is sometimes to listen and no…

Will second that many times. As a fairly proactive guy who almost never leaves any loose ends in his relationships, I overdid giving the advice and some people started avoiding me. I was bitter about it until I realized they did not want their problem fixed, they sought sympathy. Nothing wrong with that, it's just that my mind immediately jumps to potential solutions. But I was severely humbled on that front after I…

> until I realized they did not want their problem fixed, they sought sympathy.

That goes both ways, as many of the people I've run into who just want sympathy, can bring a lot of stress on the listeners. E.g. I can't take hearing complaints about abusive partners, etc so that they feel a little better for the moment, then they march right back to them.

Growing up with a serious complainer caused me to instinctively try and fix issues, and to avoid if you don't want that type of help.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#108

Post by dbjacobs »

After verifying that the person isn't just venting and looking for empathy, I'll put in my plug for learning about the transtheoretical model of change [1]. Step one is determining whether the person even sees a problem. If they don't, you can ask questions about what would things look like if there was a problem. But there is no point in giving advice until the preparation or action stages. Before that your best avenue is asking the right questions (see motivational interviewing [2]).

[1] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transtheoretical_model [2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motivational_interviewing

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#109

Post by teddyh »

“Be careful whose advice you buy, but be patient with those who supply it. Advice is a form of nostalgia. Dispensing it is a way of fishing the past from the disposal, wiping it off, painting over the ugly parts and recycling it for more than it's worth.”

— Mary Schmich

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