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Why doesn't advice work?

dynomight.substack.com

41–50 of 334 posts

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#41
post #24

I only take advice from people that are successful in that domain (sometimes people that suck at something still give advice on it), and are similar to me (I don't want exercise advice from my grandmother) Even when I'm giving advice on a domain that I'm successful in, to a person that's similar to me, they rarely take it, so I've stopped giving it

What if your grandmother was fit and knows what she's talking about? Just because someone isn't currently successful doesn’t mean they weren't successful in the past.

Many experts have differing opinions (especially in the expertise space). It also depends on how you define experts. Just being successful in the domain could be a result of luck.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#42
post #19

> And for producers of advice: Step 0 I think should be "maybe don't give advice". You want to help, you think you're really good, you think it will improve things, but that's not how other people see it. They may seem like they need advice or seem like they are asking for it between the lines, but they just really want to unload or chit chat, or share some difficulty. The answer to that is sometimes to listen and no…

these people are boring, words spent talking about nothing is akin to throwing fresh food away, I'm not a psychologist and I have my own problems, why should I have to listen to others drone on about nothing when we could be working together to fix either or both of our issues.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#43

I think it's a pretty simple, and timeless, aspect of human nature: "People are generally better persuaded by the reasons which they have themselves discovered than by those which have come into the mind of others." - Blaise Pascal, 1670

> themselves discovered Do you think people consider recommendation systems (feeds which inform their worldview) to be a part of natural order of things so they don't suspect it. Even if they know it to be algorithmic, nudges can be inserted at appropriate times when our guards are down.

This is one of the ways people can go down the rabbit hole of conspiracy theories. They think they "discovered for themselves" some secret truth that "the elite" or "the experts" don't want them to know. Then they find a community of similarly-awakened people who lower their guards even more and point them to other "alternative truths" that they can go DiscoverForThemselves™ too.

Probably the same psychology behind those obnoxious AI-generated ads that say things like "Here's the secret about gut bacteria that doctors don't want you to know!"

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#44
The advisor must work out a compensation to the 'advisee' if his advise didn't work. Most advise would be acted upon.

Of course in practice most advisors won't do it which essentially means that they do not know or have cared to understand all nuances involved.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#45
I guess this is entirely tangential, but one of the stories in here resonated with me.

I had much in common with a childhood friend. We bonded over similar interests in electronics, then video games, then computers in elementary school. He was definitely smarter than me when he could motivate himself to learn things. But in retrospect, I had dogged persistence on my side. As we moved past high school, I went into the military but kept my computer interests while he went to an art school and sort of floundered for a number of years. Getting into and out of minimum wage jobs and various MLM schemes. After I got out of the military and starting my first IT job, I tried to convince him a few times that he would be awesome at the same things I was doing at the time and would make a lot more money than he was at the time. But I guess it just wasn't what he wanted.

Fast forward a decade or two and he now owns a very successful potato-chip distributing business where he lives and bootstrapped a second side-business doing video drone photography for real estate listings. I think we make about the same amount of money, except he doesn't have a desk job, gets many more vacations, and doesn't have to sit through multiple hours of meetings a day.

So it seems he turned out alright for him despite not taking my advice. (Or possibly anyone else's!)

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#46

In a lot of situations, it is a social expectation to ask for advice, even if you have no intention of following it. At the same time, it is socially inappropriate to tell someone you don’t want their advice because you disagree with their opinions/life decisions/etc. Which is why, as a general rule, I think you should only take advice from people that have the same situation that you want to have - unless it’s negat…

This lines up with one of the best pieces of advice I've ever received: if you want to accomplish something, find someone who's done it successfully, and do what they do.

Basically, follow a proven recipe for success. Don't try to figure everything out yourself, pretty much anything you might want to do has already been done, and done well, by someone.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#47
post #9

Most people, in my experience, not only do not think logically but actively eschew thinking logically, making long term plans, goal setting, etc. I don't know if it's an intelligence thing. I don't think it is. I have met not so smart people that are incredibly goal oriented and very smart people who piss it all away. I'm at a point in my career/life where I often find myself giving advice to people who aren't intere…

  > winding parables and directed self-learning are incredibly impactful.
For those of us with a spouse for whom direct advice is useless, please go on.

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#48
I try not to ever give advice, even if someone explicitly asks for it.

I try to share my experience, or a story, and hopefully some of it resonates.

The most annoying thing I'd hear from other business folk when I was running a company was "you know what I think you should do?"

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#49
post #19

> And for producers of advice: Step 0 I think should be "maybe don't give advice". You want to help, you think you're really good, you think it will improve things, but that's not how other people see it. They may seem like they need advice or seem like they are asking for it between the lines, but they just really want to unload or chit chat, or share some difficulty. The answer to that is sometimes to listen and no…

Will second that many times. As a fairly proactive guy who almost never leaves any loose ends in his relationships, I overdid giving the advice and some people started avoiding me. I was bitter about it until I realized they did not want their problem fixed, they sought sympathy.

Nothing wrong with that, it's just that my mind immediately jumps to potential solutions.

But I was severely humbled on that front after I have allowed a super dark period in my life (7-8 years, still ongoing but is now being actively attacked and positive signs are starting to get visible). I began to understand that there are also situations where you can't do almost anything but you still need a kind word.

So I started giving that and only vaguely hinting at the potential of an advice (so subtle that most people missed it which I am very okay with) and lo and behold, the new people in my life love chatting with me.

We have a saying in our country: "You can't force-feed wisdom and shove it down people's throats like you would do for a sick person who still needs food".

Re: Why doesn't advice work?

#50

I think it's a pretty simple, and timeless, aspect of human nature: "People are generally better persuaded by the reasons which they have themselves discovered than by those which have come into the mind of others." - Blaise Pascal, 1670

> themselves discovered Do you think people consider recommendation systems (feeds which inform their worldview) to be a part of natural order of things so they don't suspect it. Even if they know it to be algorithmic, nudges can be inserted at appropriate times when our guards are down.

absolutely, but I consider that as the "environment" of cultural evolution so to say

meaning as we collectively get used to a technology we figure these kinds of things out, and even become desensitised to them.

of course people got taken by surprise at first (e.g. first trump campaign's use of those kinds of manipulations over recommendation feeds) but culture (youths and other children) do adapt and react to the "environment" or landscape

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