This is not the way to do html with python.
You can do HTML even with exel;)
Python just parsing data and injecting it back. That all up to you
FastHTML – Modern web applications in pure Python
121–130 of 229 posts
Re: FastHTML – Modern web applications in pure Python
#122Nice work! I think the Python community definitely needs something like this. The thought never occurred to me to use HTMX w/Python for both server rendered HTML and dynamic behavior in the browser. I have a few questions for you. 1. Why do you recommend conda or pip and not uv? Is this because the plug and play deployment platforms are configured to use pip? 2. Do you plan to make this “batteries included” like Djan…
1. I don't think we mention conda afaict? We suggest pip since it's already available and works fine, and most people are familiar with it. uv works fine too, but we always like to show how to do things the way with the fewest steps and that the most people will already know about. 2. We plan to include batteries in situations where it results in something better than just using some pre-existing project. So for DBs…
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Re: FastHTML – Modern web applications in pure Python
#123Frameworks like this are really next-gen, but I wish people would think in terms of the bigger Python ecosystem and not just their own framework. This is about the fifth web framework which are not compatible with each other: Streamlit, ReactPy, FastHTML, Dash, Shiny, etc.. I created a truly reusable Python component framework which is just a a string generation library and can be used for ANY existing Python web fra…
At the risk of being ignorant/heretical: Why use this over "raw" templating (e.g. jinja2) at this point?
Re: FastHTML – Modern web applications in pure Python
#124I am a python developer who has been envious of modern application dev frameworks & typescript, but never had the time to invest in another stack. This is so exciting. I suspect this might be catalyst that empowers more people to ship stuff
Take a look at streamlit as well. It’s got a few weird sharp edges but is really easy to pick up
I like streamlit but found it if gets beyond a certain size it gets very hard to manage.
Also, because FastHTML is powered by starlette, it handles async really well. That means web sockets have been a trivial implementation.
Re: FastHTML – Modern web applications in pure Python
#125Whoah, this comment section is surreal. People really aren't bothered by the propensity for runtime errors in python? How slow it is? That it has no good features for managing complexity in large codebasea? The fact that abstractions like these pretty much always break, or at some point you want to do something more outside of the box, and you have to put in a monumental effort? I'm working on a Django+graphQL app an…
There has been funding in recent years to fix the quirks and improve performance. The Faster CPython project has had good outcomes towards achieving these goals. Python 3.13 will have a JIT, and true threads. It'll likely take a couple more releases for these features to be stable and utilized throughout the stdlib and the wider ecosystem. In a few years, performance and quirks will likely not be an issue.
Threads that slow down single thread performance by 50-100%. The "faster CPython" figures are just marketing as well.
Whenever I run some benchmark myself, I do not see any improvements over Python 3.7 and the horrible numbers for the threaded build.
Re: FastHTML – Modern web applications in pure Python
#126Frameworks like this are really next-gen, but I wish people would think in terms of the bigger Python ecosystem and not just their own framework. This is about the fifth web framework which are not compatible with each other: Streamlit, ReactPy, FastHTML, Dash, Shiny, etc.. I created a truly reusable Python component framework which is just a a string generation library and can be used for ANY existing Python web fra…
But I cant use this instead of jinja?
Re: FastHTML – Modern web applications in pure Python
#127Whoah, this comment section is surreal. People really aren't bothered by the propensity for runtime errors in python? How slow it is? That it has no good features for managing complexity in large codebasea? The fact that abstractions like these pretty much always break, or at some point you want to do something more outside of the box, and you have to put in a monumental effort? I'm working on a Django+graphQL app an…
Yes, I think people are polite and give the new framework a chance. Anything that is not Django is of course appreciated.
I do not understand why Dropbox and Instagram are cited as references. People also cited Google 10 years ago, but Google has now fired the Python team.
Dropbox moved large parts to Golang, and Instagram code does not seem to be something to aspire for. Perhaps Instagram manages to prop up a horrible stack by throwing hundreds of developers at the problem. Not every company, especially startups, can afford that.
If the new free threading becomes the default, I would not expose Python directly to the web. Already before that CPython has show a lackadaisical attitude towards threading correctness and convoluted abstractions that are barely auditable.
Re: FastHTML – Modern web applications in pure Python
#128Whoah, this comment section is surreal. People really aren't bothered by the propensity for runtime errors in python? How slow it is? That it has no good features for managing complexity in large codebasea? The fact that abstractions like these pretty much always break, or at some point you want to do something more outside of the box, and you have to put in a monumental effort? I'm working on a Django+graphQL app an…
There has been funding in recent years to fix the quirks and improve performance. The Faster CPython project has had good outcomes towards achieving these goals. Python 3.13 will have a JIT, and true threads. It'll likely take a couple more releases for these features to be stable and utilized throughout the stdlib and the wider ecosystem. In a few years, performance and quirks will likely not be an issue.
I'm wondering whats the state of GraalPy - seems it support many of pip extensions.
https://github.com/oracle/graalpython
Re: FastHTML – Modern web applications in pure Python
#129I haven't seen such bad Python code (fasthtml repo) for a long time. It feels like its written in 2008 using Python2
It doesn't look like they use a formatter or linter. I hope I'm wrong but I feel like that and their use of nbdev are really going to hurt adoption. :(
Re: FastHTML – Modern web applications in pure Python
#130First, I welcome any project that enriches a software ecosystem, and this project no doubt does just that. However, I have two points which will deter me from using this (or any python->html/js framework) in a commercial production project: 1. It silos front end development in Python world. It might be great if your entire team are and always will be Python devs, but what happens when you want dedicated from end deve…
1. These folks on such a project will otherwise need to deal with templates with Python in them. Inside out or outside in, there’s some complexity. Linted, formatted, optionally typed Python is likely going to be more maintainable than html templates in the long run and is one of the easier langs to pick up. css/js can be linked separately. I don’t see any limitations that would prevent one from using a template on a…
I just don't see how a project beyond a small website can benefit from having it's front end generated in such a way. Once you grow beyond the "website" with simple interaction your front end becomes it's own universe. Coupling it all in the back end never ends well despite all good intentions. That has been my personal experience so far, so mileage varies etc.
As an aside, HTML is formatted in a very visual way in my opinion. The tag syntax makes it clear to visually identify blocks and layout elements. You lose this when you describe the layout in Python.