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FastHTML – Modern web applications in pure Python

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Re: FastHTML – Modern web applications in pure Python

#101

Post by 0x3444ac53 »

bruh2 wrote: post #79
kissgyorgy wrote: post #52

Frameworks like this are really next-gen, but I wish people would think in terms of the bigger Python ecosystem and not just their own framework. This is about the fifth web framework which are not compatible with each other: Streamlit, ReactPy, FastHTML, Dash, Shiny, etc.. I created a truly reusable Python component framework which is just a a string generation library and can be used for ANY existing Python web fra…

This sounds exactly like what I was looking for. I settled on htbuilder[1], but it certainly does not feel right as it requires a fair bit of wrangling in order to fit with Django. I'd love to help you with documentation and such; hit me up at smart.tent1246@fastmail.com if you'd like a partner(: [1] https://github.com/tvst/htbuilder EDIT: Actually, scrolling further in this thread, it looks like https://htpy.dev fit…

Looking over your examples makes me think of sxml

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SXML

Re: FastHTML – Modern web applications in pure Python

#102

Post by simplecto »

BerislavLopac wrote: post #94

I'm personally always confused with those batteries-included frameworks like Django, FastAPI and similar. Sure, they might be easier for a beginner to quickly whip up a simple Web site/app, but in my experience as your requirements grow they quickly start getting in your way. Starting with more flexible initial components (e.g. Starlette) and adding batteries (SQLAlchemy, Jinja2, HTMX...) as needed allows for a sensi…

Django is like a marriage. You have to commit fully to get the most out of it. You have to work through the (perceived) suboptimal parts to find a compromise that such that the whole system does not fall down.

And with enough time you come to realize there are certain things that are out of scope for the current codebase. Just as there are things that are out of scope for the current marriage.

hahaha - I dont know...I should stop here. This metaphor is stretching thin

Re: FastHTML – Modern web applications in pure Python

#104

Post by kissgyorgy »

inbetween wrote: post #71
kissgyorgy wrote: post #52

Frameworks like this are really next-gen, but I wish people would think in terms of the bigger Python ecosystem and not just their own framework. This is about the fifth web framework which are not compatible with each other: Streamlit, ReactPy, FastHTML, Dash, Shiny, etc.. I created a truly reusable Python component framework which is just a a string generation library and can be used for ANY existing Python web fra…

That looks super interesting, congratulations. I would suggest you do write lots of documentation, a more elaborate readme on github and generally push your approach. As it stands, the repo looks somewhat unfinished and inactive, unlikely to make people spend their time and energy digging into it. I hope you drive it forward!

You are totally right, but I'm not actively working on it, because core (the base library) is basically ready and I'm working on a project in production which is exclusively using it [1]. The site is using htmx, feels snappy overall and I'm even generating static parts with it (e.g. the home page).

[1]: https://findendurancecoach.com/

Re: FastHTML – Modern web applications in pure Python

#105

Post by jph00 »

098799 wrote: post #103

Yikes. I'm going to follow this one cause it's right up my alley, but I'm worried I will absolutely hate the process if some standards don't change, e.g. having to have multiple functions called "get()" for them to be a GET request is going to drive mypy/flake8 mad.

You can just use `@app.get` and name your function whatever you like, just like FastAPI, if you prefer.

Although I don't see why flake8 should care - multi-dispatch is built into the python stdlib so having multiple functions with the same name is not weird or new.

Re: FastHTML – Modern web applications in pure Python

#106

Post by jph00 »

rasmus1610 wrote: post #85

We have 75 comments and no one has mentioned the awesome domain name? c'mon :D really excited for this project. I hope it catches on. It has some really nice ideas in it, like all the stuff jeremy does!

After creating fastmail.fm in 1999, and then fast.ai, this felt like the right name and domain to me! :D

Re: FastHTML – Modern web applications in pure Python

#107

Post by jph00 »

throwaway89988 wrote: post #86

Hi Jeremy, congratulations for the launch and the website looks very nice indeed. I am honestly mostly interested in your reason, to mix HTML/CSS generation into the Python code. Disclaimer, I am very biased towards separation of concern and like my backend just returning JSON/XML/whatever data and a templating system. Of course this increases the ramp-up time to learn a framework, but then it is IMHO very powerful,…

I'm a big fan of Locality of Behavior (LoB): https://htmx.org/essays/locality-of-behaviour/ . I don't think this need be incompatible with SoC. But even if you did think so, I believe that it's better to have everything in one language as much as possible, with the simplest possible specification of marshalling over network boundaries. My view is that hypermedia is a better way to do both of these things.

(I think HTML templating is a historical accident for what it's worth, and I hope it dies.)

Re: FastHTML – Modern web applications in pure Python

#108

Post by 098799 »

jph00 wrote: post #105
098799 wrote: post #103

Yikes. I'm going to follow this one cause it's right up my alley, but I'm worried I will absolutely hate the process if some standards don't change, e.g. having to have multiple functions called "get()" for them to be a GET request is going to drive mypy/flake8 mad.

You can just use `@app.get` and name your function whatever you like, just like FastAPI, if you prefer. Although I don't see why flake8 should care - multi-dispatch is built into the python stdlib so having multiple functions with the same name is not weird or new.

Thanks for the info. In general, being compliant with established conventions (even if you don't personally like them) can lower the barrier of entry for some people who may superficially reject your library based on esthetic concerns.

If you'd like to dig deeper, the reference is:

    F811 redefinition of unused 'get' from line xx
from flake8 and

    error: Name "get" already defined on line xx  [no-redef]
from mypy.

Re: FastHTML – Modern web applications in pure Python

#109

Post by throwaway89988 »

jph00 wrote: post #107
throwaway89988 wrote: post #86

Hi Jeremy, congratulations for the launch and the website looks very nice indeed. I am honestly mostly interested in your reason, to mix HTML/CSS generation into the Python code. Disclaimer, I am very biased towards separation of concern and like my backend just returning JSON/XML/whatever data and a templating system. Of course this increases the ramp-up time to learn a framework, but then it is IMHO very powerful,…

I'm a big fan of Locality of Behavior (LoB): https://htmx.org/essays/locality-of-behaviour/ . I don't think this need be incompatible with SoC. But even if you did think so, I believe that it's better to have everything in one language as much as possible, with the simplest possible specification of marshalling over network boundaries. My view is that hypermedia is a better way to do both of these things. (I think HT…

Thank you very much for insights and elaboration!

I am not too very happy that we need at least CSS/HTML/Javascript (ok, HTMX...) for web applications and would love to have a simpler tech stack.

For me, the biggest concern is CSS/HTML/JavaScript do not go away and it seems to me, when I choose FastHTML I still need a descent understanding of these AND need to understand how FastHTML transforms Python code on top of it. Templates show me mostly what I will get once they are rendered, which means less mental work for me.

Templating w/o embedded logic like Mustache are acceptable for me and I found good use cases for them. Once templating systems become obviously Turing Complete I see a problem. ;-)

Re: FastHTML – Modern web applications in pure Python

#110

Post by awahab92 »

bruce343434 wrote: post #92

Whoah, this comment section is surreal. People really aren't bothered by the propensity for runtime errors in python? How slow it is? That it has no good features for managing complexity in large codebasea? The fact that abstractions like these pretty much always break, or at some point you want to do something more outside of the box, and you have to put in a monumental effort? I'm working on a Django+graphQL app an…

The only two langauges that have better error handling are golang and rust.

but not having to context switch from python to another language is worth it for 95% of applications.

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