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Newegg: No, We'll Totally Take Returns After You Install Linux

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Re: Newegg: No, We'll Totally Take Returns After You Install Linux

#91

Post by slurgfest »

bitwize wrote: post #23
slurgfest wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think Ubuntu has ever claimed perfect support for those and I don't understand why Asus is not being held to the mat for not doing basic QA with at least one Linux distribution. Anyway, when you buy hardware, do not just buy whatever looks nice but buy something confirmed to work for your use cases. If that use case is running OS X, get something which supports OS X. And same for Linux, too.

I don't understand why Asus is not being held to the mat for not doing basic QA with at least one Linux distribution. Because there's no money in it. A PC runs Windows. That's practically the definition of a PC. They're selling into a market that's like 90% Windows -- more like 99% if you filter out all the Macs. Their margins are razor thin. They can either do QA with Windows only at a certain cost x , or they can d…

OK. It is open season for saying that Linux is bad because your laptop doesn't support it. But if consumers decide that laptop manufacturers only need to support Windows, it should not be a shock when brand new laptops are made without good Linux support.

I can't even imagine how bad driver support would be in Windows or OS X if every single device driver had to be made by the same company selling the OS.

Re: Newegg: No, We'll Totally Take Returns After You Install Linux

#92

Post by yardie »

ineedtosleep wrote: post #16
x1 wrote: post #3

(I posted this earlier... this is a little off topic) https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AsusZenbook#Suspend http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1774661 First off, I'm glad newegg will accept returns but we've got a HUGE problem in the linux community with these newer laptops. The problem isn't that newegg needs to accept our laptops but why these newer laptops are getting bricked by linux! I want an ultrabook. I…

To be fair, "FLAWLESSLY running Debian" is quite a tall order considering that Linux support for newer laptop drivers is typically pretty slow and even if the drivers exist, it's likely to have some wonkiness that kills the "FLAWLESSLY running Debian" qualifier. I'm not a MBP owner, however, an OS running off of a variation of Unix is probably a huge boon in terms of Linux compatibility when compared to the other lap…

Its also easier to support a distro that runs on 3 types of laptops of the same brand rather than 1000 variations of Wintel laptops.

Re: Newegg: No, We'll Totally Take Returns After You Install Linux

#94

Post by beagle3 »

eropple wrote: post #67
beagle3 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> True, but hardware failures are known to happen due to Linux misbehavior [citation needed] In the past, Linux was blamed for memory failure because it exposed bad memory when trying to make use of it, and Windows on the same machine didn't. But it was not Linux's fault.

Look elsewhere in this thread re: the Zenbook issues. They're mostly fixed now (maybe even entirely), but at one point it was possible to damage them with certain combinations of settings.

The Zenbook issue described in this thread does not damage the hardware; A proper reset (which unfortunately due to Zenbook construction requires disconnecting the battery, which is nontrivial) solves everything.

Re: Newegg: No, We'll Totally Take Returns After You Install Linux

#95

Post by DanielStraight »

papsosouid wrote: post #42
DanielStraight wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? Why is "we made a mistake, we're offering to fix it" not enough? What more could they say? Do you want the name of the rep who made the mistake? Do you want them fired? Neither one of these seems remotely reasonable, but I'm not sure what else you could want. It was a simple human error. Customer service agent was wrong about the policy. It happens.

>Why is "we made a mistake, we're offering to fix it" not enough? Because I don't want to have to waste my time trying to drum up media attention when it happens to me. >What more could they say? Explain how this mistake happened in the first place, and what they are doing to prevent it from happening again. It doesn't help me that I may be able to publicly shame them into giving me an RMA. I want to know that I will…

> How do you know this?

I don't. You are right that it could be policy. It just seems that the Occam's Razor explanation is human error.

I disagree about the ease of making the mistake. I think it is a very easy mistake to make. Customer service agents deal with tons of emails. They probably also deal with tons of emails where the customer has legitimately done something to warrant not taking the machine back (like say, dropping it in the bath tub). If you don't hear about Linux often (and most people don't), don't know the details of reinstalling OSes (something customer service agents are unlikely trained on), it's easy to think the customer has gone too far. You spend 2 minutes on the email (so you can get through them all), send it on its way and never give it a second thought.

I think it's an easy mistake to make because I make stupid mistakes all the time. Where I work, some users have a certain network path mapped as a drive letter and some don't. Yet even after making the mistake several times before, I still sometimes send emails to users who don't have it mapped referencing the drive letter instead of network path, only to hear back from them that my link doesn't work.

You want 100% certainty it won't happen again, but nothing is ever 100%. The best they can do is increase the number of 9's. Zero tolerance for errors simply doesn't work.

I will admit, however, that my tendency is to give the benefit of the doubt, so I could be biased here.

Re: Newegg: No, We'll Totally Take Returns After You Install Linux

#96

Post by debacle »

r00fus wrote: post #29
debacle wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not helpful to provide incentives to companies who only own up to their mistakes after a brutal public shaming.

No, but it's good to recognize they did the right thing eventually. This isn't "providing an incentive", it's showing them that good behavior is expected. Anyone who has raised kids understands this basic psychology.

I've got two kids. You discipline your kids when they misbehave. You don't reward them for doing what they should have done in the first place.

Re: Newegg: No, We'll Totally Take Returns After You Install Linux

#97

Post by bitwize »

slurgfest wrote: post #91
bitwize wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why Asus is not being held to the mat for not doing basic QA with at least one Linux distribution. Because there's no money in it. A PC runs Windows. That's practically the definition of a PC. They're selling into a market that's like 90% Windows -- more like 99% if you filter out all the Macs. Their margins are razor thin. They can either do QA with Windows only at a certain cost x , or they can d…

OK. It is open season for saying that Linux is bad because your laptop doesn't support it. But if consumers decide that laptop manufacturers only need to support Windows, it should not be a shock when brand new laptops are made without good Linux support. I can't even imagine how bad driver support would be in Windows or OS X if every single device driver had to be made by the same company selling the OS.

I can't even imagine how bad driver support would be in Windows or OS X if every single device driver had to be made by the same company selling the OS.

I can. That situation happened with OS/2 back in the early nineties. That's one of the big reasons why you don't hear about OS/2 anymore.

Re: Newegg: No, We'll Totally Take Returns After You Install Linux

#98

Post by papsosouid »

eropple wrote: post #69
papsosouid wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It feels like you're making a mountain out of a molehill here (it sort of reads like you have an axe to grind about them, but I'm not going to accuse you of it without proof) That is an accusation, trying to backhandedly hide it behind "I'm not going to do exactly what I am doing right now" is just as disingenuous as people who say things like "not to be a dick, but ..." as they proceed to be a dick. >but as far as…

> That is an accusation, trying to backhandedly hide it behind "I'm not going to do exactly what I am doing right now" is just as disingenuous as people who say things like "not to be a dick, but ..." as they proceed to be a dick. No, I'm saying that you sound like you have an axe to grind. I don't know if you do. Do you? Whether yes or no, your post still sounded like you did. If I thought you had an axe to grind wi…

>No

Yes. Again, pretending otherwise doesn't make it so. Allow me to demonstrate:

Man, you sure sound like a dumbass. Not that you are one or anything.

What is the purpose of that statement? It is only included to call you a dumbass. Just as saying "you sound like you have an axe to grind, but I'm not saying you do" serves no purpose other than to suggest that I do in fact have an axe to grind.

>Whether yes or no, your post still sounded like you did.

You interpret my post that way. My post is a simple statement, which isn't based on newegg specifically, but rather the general concept of "just saying oops isn't good enough, you need to explain how you are solving the problem". Your interpretation is colored by your own biases, just as everyone's is. So while you see me as someone who hates newegg, others may see me as a normal, reasonable guy, and you as an obsessed newegg fanboy, or a shill. Of course, the reality is probably neither of those. Pushing your bias on me serves no purpose other than to dismiss my opinion. You are welcome to dismiss my opinion, but you need not report to me every time you do so.

>The standards you expect Newegg to reach are absolutely insane given their size and the triviality of this issue[1]--and that, given the very widespread amount of goodwill toward the company, that you're absolutely flying off the handle.

The standard is in fact very low, and easy to meet. Explain what happened is not complex or difficult, regardless of company size. I am not familiar with newegg, so why would other people's goodwill make me feel comfortable dealing with them? And again, your bias is painfully loud here. I did not fly off the handle. I calmly answered a question with a very simple and reasonable answer. I would suggest that the many upvotes my post received indicates that a significant number of people do not share your perception.

>Getting the pitchforks and torches out before confirming malice is stupid.

There are no pitchforks or torches, again with the insane bias. I simply answered the question "why is this not good enough?". With the actual reason that I would not purchase something from a company that refused an RMA for an obviously bogus reason, and then just said "oops sorry" when there was a public outcry, but never bothered to explain what happened or how they are preventing it from happening in the future.

Re: Newegg: No, We'll Totally Take Returns After You Install Linux

#99

Post by papsosouid »

DanielStraight wrote: post #95
papsosouid wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Why is "we made a mistake, we're offering to fix it" not enough? Because I don't want to have to waste my time trying to drum up media attention when it happens to me. >What more could they say? Explain how this mistake happened in the first place, and what they are doing to prevent it from happening again. It doesn't help me that I may be able to publicly shame them into giving me an RMA. I want to know that I will…

> How do you know this? I don't. You are right that it could be policy. It just seems that the Occam's Razor explanation is human error. I disagree about the ease of making the mistake. I think it is a very easy mistake to make. Customer service agents deal with tons of emails. They probably also deal with tons of emails where the customer has legitimately done something to warrant not taking the machine back (like s…

>You want 100% certainty it won't happen again, but nothing is ever 100%

No, I didn't say that at all. I want a reasonable assurance. Going "oops, nevermind" after a public outcry doesn't give me reasonable assurance. Saying "one of our support staff made an error, and we have decided to improve our training materials so that our support staff will know what an operating system is in the future" would give me reasonable assurance. And I would be totally fine with that, even though I have no way of knowing they actually did change their training. I would gladly give them the benefit of the doubt. The problem is not that I assume they are bad when they are trying to be good, it is that they are offering me no information at all, so I have to assume it would be risky to deal with them.

Re: Newegg: No, We'll Totally Take Returns After You Install Linux

#100

Post by dpres »

Hmm... I have 31 purchases from newegg and returned 25 of those purchases with 0 problems. That's 80% return rate with 100% satisfaction.

I'm glad we hold companies accountable as consumers, but why do we focus on one employee's action without forgiveness? The issue was resolved, get over it. I'm tired of rant articles being posted to HN.

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