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DRM in the cinema

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Re: DRM in the cinema

#21

Post by quanticle »

tantalor wrote: post #17

> the projectionist can’t test to see if the KDM works or that the quality of the film is right before show time This seems like a simple and critical feature. If the distributor wishes to impose these extreme constraints on the projectionist, then the projectionist needs to know its going to work well in advance. The projectionist shouldn't even need to be in the room when the movie starts. I've run into this patter…

Except that in this case, you can't test. The only way to test is to load the movie, load a key and play the movie. No key? No movie, and no test. In addition, there is no way the distributor will let you have a "test" key. One of those would be manna from heaven for any unsavory projectionist who wanted to make high quality copies from theater prints.

Re: DRM in the cinema

#22

Post by kleiba »

trimbo wrote: post #13

Ex-VFX guy here again. I feel like I have to comment on these threads because I'm thrilled to see 35mm film die.[1] The DRM sucks but.... > There are instances in the US already where some studios are refusing to freight 35mm film prints to cinemas. Yeah, because it's crazy expensive . It costs ~$1500 to strike and ship a 35mm print[2]. Also, did you know that prints are delivered by some specialized delivery company…

Do you think that if movie theaters didn't have to use an expensive delivery service, the movie going experience would get any better?

Re: DRM in the cinema

#23

Post by tomsaffell »

quanticle wrote: post #21
tantalor wrote: post #17

> the projectionist can’t test to see if the KDM works or that the quality of the film is right before show time This seems like a simple and critical feature. If the distributor wishes to impose these extreme constraints on the projectionist, then the projectionist needs to know its going to work well in advance. The projectionist shouldn't even need to be in the room when the movie starts. I've run into this patter…

Except that in this case, you can't test. The only way to test is to load the movie, load a key and play the movie. No key? No movie, and no test. In addition, there is no way the distributor will let you have a "test" key. One of those would be manna from heaven for any unsavory projectionist who wanted to make high quality copies from theater prints.

No test key required. Inputting the actual key prior to the scheduled slot should cause the projector to show a randomly chosen 30 second segment of the movie, with an overlay message at the bottom saying, "Test projection - key valid starting at HH:MM on dd/mm/yy". This should work around 10 times. The overlay should be background-color: #000; opacity: 0.6; color: #fff.

Re: DRM in the cinema

#24

Post by trimbo »

wahnfrieden wrote: post #18
trimbo wrote: post #13

Ex-VFX guy here again. I feel like I have to comment on these threads because I'm thrilled to see 35mm film die.[1] The DRM sucks but.... > There are instances in the US already where some studios are refusing to freight 35mm film prints to cinemas. Yeah, because it's crazy expensive . It costs ~$1500 to strike and ship a 35mm print[2]. Also, did you know that prints are delivered by some specialized delivery company…

You don't think there's a place for it in smaller / specialized venues for some time? It makes sense for mainstream Hollywood not to bother with it anymore, but I for one would appreciate to be able to see Bela Tarr on 35mm or Antonioni on 70mm again. I know many of these older prints are passed around too rather than struck per showing.

This is interesting, my interpretation of what they were saying was for _new_ prints. But in the case of old prints, I see your point.

Long term, I hope this is self-correcting. People still like vinyl, and although you can't find a Tower Records anywhere on earth, you can find vinyl shops that are still doing really well. The same could end up being true for film-projecting theaters.

My bias for digital probably clouds my judgment now so I have a question: would you be interested to see these on film if you could see a cleaned up, perfect, version on a 4K+ digital projector? What about the film version appeals to you?

Re: DRM in the cinema

#25

Post by trimbo »

kleiba wrote: post #22
trimbo wrote: post #13

Ex-VFX guy here again. I feel like I have to comment on these threads because I'm thrilled to see 35mm film die.[1] The DRM sucks but.... > There are instances in the US already where some studios are refusing to freight 35mm film prints to cinemas. Yeah, because it's crazy expensive . It costs ~$1500 to strike and ship a 35mm print[2]. Also, did you know that prints are delivered by some specialized delivery company…

Do you think that if movie theaters didn't have to use an expensive delivery service, the movie going experience would get any better?

Not sure I understand the question. Do you mean if the cost for delivering prints was substantially lower... what would happen?

Re: DRM in the cinema

#26

Post by roc »

quanticle wrote: post #21
tantalor wrote: post #17

> the projectionist can’t test to see if the KDM works or that the quality of the film is right before show time This seems like a simple and critical feature. If the distributor wishes to impose these extreme constraints on the projectionist, then the projectionist needs to know its going to work well in advance. The projectionist shouldn't even need to be in the room when the movie starts. I've run into this patter…

Except that in this case, you can't test. The only way to test is to load the movie, load a key and play the movie. No key? No movie, and no test. In addition, there is no way the distributor will let you have a "test" key. One of those would be manna from heaven for any unsavory projectionist who wanted to make high quality copies from theater prints.

Surely they could create test keys that authorize X minutes of playback to test projection. That would make the cam concern moot and address the desire to test the setup prior to show time.

Re: DRM in the cinema

#27

Post by Groxx »

forrestthewoods wrote: post #9
spdy wrote: post #4

This is fighting piracy on the wrong level. Some people must be so afraid that someone could copy their "work" that they put a chain on the most trusted place. The KDM unlocks the content of the file and allows the cinema to play the film. It is time sensitive and often is only valid from around 10 minutes prior to the screening time and expiring as close to 5 minutes after the scheduled time. This made me shiver...…

As others have said, this seems to be the perfect place to fight piracy. At present time most movies do not have high quality releases until the blu-ray discs are manufactured. When a movie goes to blu-ray 720p and 1080p copies are instantly released online. Having those movies available online opening weekend, if not before opening weekend, could be disastrous.

They already are in quite a few circumstances. It hasn't collapsed the industry yet - there are other reasons to go to a movie theater than to see the movie.

As a concrete example, there are tens of thousands of seeders of Prometheus right now at a couple sites I just checked. And quite a few people I know, who know exactly how to use torrents, went to see it in the theater.

Re: DRM in the cinema

#28

Post by SoftwareMaven »

Hollywood's lack of trust in anybody will be the doom of the cinema, so they need to tread carefully here. If going to the cinema (differentiating that from the megaplex) means crap like this, the cinema will die. When enthusiasts are pushed away, the lifeblood dies.

If your fervent supporters lose faith, you are in trouble.

Re: DRM in the cinema

#29

Post by cdcarter »

trimbo wrote: post #13

Ex-VFX guy here again. I feel like I have to comment on these threads because I'm thrilled to see 35mm film die.[1] The DRM sucks but.... > There are instances in the US already where some studios are refusing to freight 35mm film prints to cinemas. Yeah, because it's crazy expensive . It costs ~$1500 to strike and ship a 35mm print[2]. Also, did you know that prints are delivered by some specialized delivery company…

I work for a group of venues that recently opened a film screening room that can handle almost all digital formats, 16mm, and 35mm prints. And we in fact ship our prints almost exclusively by FedEx. I had to take a canister to the local shop on a dolly just the other day.

Though, they are super expensive to ship. Maybe it's a regional thing, the delivery? Here in Mass you need to be a licensed projectionist due to the flammability.

Re: DRM in the cinema

#30

Post by beloch »

On the one hand, digital distribution has many advantages over film distribution, but I can't help but feel it's being rushed when it's not quite ready.

DRM muck-ups like this are, of course a problem. However, the quality of the product isn't up to snuff yet either. e.g. Digital IMAX is terrible. The whole point of the IMAX format is to project a massive image with incredible detail. It's supposed to feel more real because so much of your peripheral vision is engaged while you're still able to focus in on one spot and see very fine detail. Digital IMAX gets the size right, but the detail is lacking. In every digital IMAX theater I've been in I was able to see individual pixels on the screen. This of course, leads to all sorts of digital artifacts like shimmering (especially noticeable during credit crawls).

IMax film is still breath-taking and superior to anything digital. I hope it sticks around in at least some theaters until digital IMAX gets its act together. I also hope to see some of the great 70mm classics (e.g. Lawrence of Arabia) on film before it's too late.

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