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Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

foreignpolicy.com

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Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#721

Post by account42 »

FabHK wrote: post #439
lolinder wrote: post #314

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my comment (emphasis in the original): > abusive apps (Facebook et al) will start ushering users away from it into their own, abusive paths as the only way to install > Do other users leaving affect you? To clarify, I'm not an Apple user. I use their competitors in all categories because they're not really my style. (Yes, choosing something other than Apple is a choice you can make!) I'm just someone who feels t…

The path you describe is so realistic. Facebook will leave the AppStore. Grandma can’t find Facebook anymore on her new iPhone, and will google “how to install Facebook on iPhone”. Thousands of websites will SEO for that, and give instructions (“There will be a popup that says ‘You might install dangerous software. Are you sure?’ Press YES.”) on how to install their AppStore with some Facebook clone/spyware/VPN MITM…

Still seems more of a "we need the mafia because they prevent you from buying hard drugs" kind of argument. If Facebook is so harmful then we should deal with it directly instead of giving another private company control over what individuals can install and what businesses can or cannot reach half of the population. More to the point whe should require Facebook to allow alternative applications which don't violate your privacy and thus could be on the app store so grandma never has to go searching for the "real" facebook to interact with her friends unless that's something she specifically wants.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#722

Post by account42 »

merrywhether wrote: post #346
fallingknife wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Apple was required to provide root access to all customers this would not prevent anyone from choosing to stay inside their walled garden.

You need app Foo on your phone for work (like Slack, maybe). Foo is in the App Store and worked great on your iPhone but decides they want to install via their own store so they can monetize employees’ data (location, whatever) to make more money. The new store launches, the new app version abuses private APIs, and the App Store version stops working. Your company announces that all employees need to download from th…

Those examples all sound like issues that should be dealth with by appropriate laws instead of hoping that the maffia ends up protecting you from worse criminals.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#723

Post by account42 »

monksy wrote: post #239
pembrook wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is against regulation that disfavors large incumbents to support competition instead. You'll struggle to find people who are against the Digital Markets Act for this reason. It literally only targets the potential monopolists. However, virtually every other piece of regulation does the opposite. Regulation usually gets trotted out after the downside of doing [new innovation] is experienced. This always happens…

It's not that most people hate risk. It's that individuals whom are harmed by sociopathic individuals that exploit methodologies, techniques, and products to enrich, steal, and harm the population. (When I say that I mean financially, emotionally, socially, physically, etc). To add further insult to injury, defending ones self against these individuals is disproportionately impossible. Socially: Creating and cultivat…

> Stealing: Scooter companies are actively stealing the public space to operate their business (sidewalks), endorsing their users to run over people on the sidewalk (also making it difficult to identify the individual), etc.

OMG I cannot wait for these companies to be fined out of existence.

How can you be allowed to have a business model that relies on people leaving your trash wherever they feel like it.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#724

Post by account42 »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #102
KaiserPro wrote: post #88

A company that provides a phone service (mobile or other) has to conform to a large amount of regulatory red tape. Why? because either a company before tried to monopolise the entire country, or they killed someone. Now, large tech companies haven't wholesale killed people (unlike say tobacco, or talc powder, 3M and half of their solvents, weed killer, most car makers, etc etc) but they have been trying desperately t…

> but they have been trying desperately to stop all competition. Every large company in every industry wants to do this. > They've also been trying to extract as much personal info as possible for profit. Why would you expect a company not to pursue profits?

Why do you expect countries to not restrict how companies can pursue profits to protect their citizens?

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#725

Post by account42 »

lolinder wrote: post #127
2muchcoffeeman wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In a very real sense, the EU has ruled that Meta’s core business model is illegal. Is this actually bad?

No, but the EU and the citizens thereof should then accept that Meta or other similar companies in similar situations can't operate within the EU. The EU regulators and select HN users might be okay with that, but EU citizens on average probably won't be.

Only if "companies in similar situations" means companies that have been built around violating users' basic rights.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#726

Post by account42 »

uncanneyvalley wrote: post #274
ktosobcy wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, but the EU and the citizens thereof should then accept that Meta or other similar companies in similar situations can't operate within the EU. I wouldn't mind if FB left...

WhatsApp though?

Yes?

No company should be allowed control over such a large portion of private communication.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#727

Post by account42 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #141
lolinder wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but the EU and the citizens thereof should then accept that Meta or other similar companies in similar situations can't operate within the EU. The EU regulators and select HN users might be okay with that, but EU citizens on average probably won't be.

> No, but the EU and the citizens thereof should then accept that Meta or other similar companies in similar situations can't operate within the EU More pointedly, that they can't be built in or run from the EU.

... and can't do business in the EU.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#728

Post by account42 »

dingnuts wrote: post #175
ktosobcy wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

BS. Lot's of companies / entities moved there because of said "millions" so you are unwillingly forced to use them as a mean of contact. And sadly open alternatives are blocked/unavailable...

you know it's possible to get through life without either Facebook or a Facebook alternative, right? I closed my account ten years ago, and I don't have an alternative. After the withdrawal period I stopped caring. My loved ones send me text messages of their kids. Exactly what is the point of Facebook?

Ok, I also live without a FB account.

But I don't go around pretending that that doesn't cut me out of social contacts. Not everyone will be as accomodating as your friends and relatives.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#729

Post by account42 »

fallingknife wrote: post #321
sensanaty wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My sister has kids, and their school exclusively uses whatsapp to broadcast events and other things happening in the school, despite repeated complaints from many parents. There's millions of little things like this out there. Many small businesses like repairmen or such only do Whatsapp. It's quite literally unavoidable in some countries.

Sorry, this is just how technology works. There is going to be a way that the vast majority of people want to communicate and if you don't want to use it, it's going to be a pain in the ass for you. This is always going to be the case, and nobody is under any obligation to accommodate you. If you didn't want to have a home phone in the 90s it would have been the same thing.

No, this is how monopolies build their turf. Individually it is almost impossible to say no to that but as society we can simply outlaw these lock in tactics.

You might have heard of the phone network and email. Both provide you with choices as to which corporations you want to do business with without limiting what contacts you can talk to.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#730

Post by account42 »

fallingknife wrote: post #648
ktosobcy wrote: post #488

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course but the argument was: "You're free to not be a user, but millions of other people want it.". So the notion that you have complete freedom is somewhat false…

Who is talking about complete freedom? Nobody who lives in any human society will ever have that.

So? Just because there are reasons to compromise our freedoms doesn't mean we should stop asking which compromises are worth it and saying no to those that aren't.
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