Ask HN: Is making clones bad? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: Is making clones bad?

#41

Post by gommm » Sat, Dec 27, 2008, 8:25 AM UTC

modoc wrote: post #34

davidw wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could, yeah, lots of things could happen. My guess is the "first mover localization play" is, more often than not, a lower risk, lower payoff sort of thing. You're never going to be the next Google, but then again, you can see that the original service is working pretty well - you're not creating something that's never been done before, so you have an example to follow, and if you execute well and play your cards rig…

I think it puts you at a disadvantage. It's generally far easier for the established, high-traffic, high PR, etc... player to add a new resource bundle with language de jour, than for you to rebuild their application and get the traction they already have. Plus, if they came up with something new to begin with, they probably have smart folks coming up with ideas on what to add/enhance next. I'm not saying it's a bad…

I think that cloning a website by localizing it for another country only really makes sense when the community around the website is a big part of its value. In this case the new community surronding the localized version is going to provide a significant advantage to the cloner.

For 10MinuteMail, there is not as much value added by localizing it so it's certainly not a good idea to clone it...

Re: Ask HN: Is making clones bad?

#42

Post by gommm » Sat, Dec 27, 2008, 8:45 AM UTC

I think part of the problem with cloning a website is the motivation. Feeling that you're just cloning a succesful website without adding your own touch is just not as motivating (at least for me).

I'm a bit in this situation currently since I had an idea for a product that I really wanted to do, but by the time I quit my job to work on it, someone else had the same idea and implemented it for the american market... So, I let the idea by the wayside for a while but recently I decided to implement it for another market... So in a way I'm cloning someone's website (same base idea) without cloning since I originally wanted to do exactly such a website...

Re: Ask HN: Is making clones bad?

#43

Post by DougBTX » Sat, Dec 27, 2008, 11:02 AM UTC

kingnothing wrote: post #37

eugenejen wrote: post #9

"Bad artists copy. Great artists steal." -- Pablo Picasso. I think as long as your friend is conscious what Picasso said in the quote above, it will be ok. Because the clone is just the starting point. There is market there but no product is available. So by cloning this product, he gets his foot out of the door and the rest of journey is up to him.

I've always heard that quote as "Good artists copy; great artists steal." Any idea which is correct?

I've heard the "Good" version too. On Google it wins 35,000 against 2,660, which is closer than I'd expect. The Wikipedia page has it as "Good", but Unsourced.

Re: Ask HN: Is making clones bad?

#44

Post by Raphael » Sat, Dec 27, 2008, 11:25 AM UTC

mixmax wrote: post #32

I actually hacked up a clone of HN because I thought it would be nice with a hn-like site for "normal" news in Danish and there aren't any. I don't feel bad about it in any way because it doesn't infringe or subtract from HN since it's a totally different crowd. If you want you can check it out here: http://www.deloghersk.dk (still has a few bugs...)

Well, HN is just a clone of Reddit. And Reddit is just an improved Digg. When someone makes a clone of yours, then you'll know you've hit it big!

Re: Ask HN: Is making clones bad?

#45

Post by Raphael » Sat, Dec 27, 2008, 11:33 AM UTC

palish wrote: post #35

Awe. I thought this would be a philosophical discussion about the merits of human cloning.

It's so easy to make people naturally that it would be pointless to make more than a few clones, just to prove it can be done. The same applies to apps. If you are looking for a programming or design exercise and can't think of anything original, rewrite an app you like.

Re: Ask HN: Is making clones bad?

#46

Post by swaroop » Sat, Dec 27, 2008, 11:34 AM UTC

wesley wrote: post #3

Err, localizing the site is already offering something better. I'd say go for it. Are you suggesting non-english people simply shouldn't have access to such a site because it already exists in english and the company chose not to build a localized version? There's a huge market there ripe for the picking and many American companies aren't taking notice.

Definitely. This is like Bollywood/Hindi movies making rip-offs of English movies. It still adds value because it brings the idea (the story) to a number of people who wouldn't have been able to use it otherwise (language barrier).

Re: Ask HN: Is making clones bad?

#47

Post by baddox » Sat, Dec 27, 2008, 11:43 AM UTC

swaroop wrote: post #46

wesley wrote: post #3

Err, localizing the site is already offering something better. I'd say go for it. Are you suggesting non-english people simply shouldn't have access to such a site because it already exists in english and the company chose not to build a localized version? There's a huge market there ripe for the picking and many American companies aren't taking notice.

Definitely. This is like Bollywood/Hindi movies making rip-offs of English movies. It still adds value because it brings the idea (the story) to a number of people who wouldn't have been able to use it otherwise (language barrier).

America's Hollywood also does this to foreign films, though it's rarely anything close to what you'd call an improvement.

Re: Ask HN: Is making clones bad?

#48

Post by wheels » Sat, Dec 27, 2008, 1:48 PM UTC

owkaye wrote: post #40

wheels wrote: post #30

I have mixed feelings here. On the one hand, from a market perspective I think, "Sure, why not. Just exploit the race condition that exists between The Next Big Thing in the US and those startups recognizing the European market." On the other hand, as someone that cares about the health of the European startup scene, it doesn't set a good precedent that successful European startups tend to far too often just be knock…

It's not all "America to Europe" you know ... there are startups in Europe that are innovating in ways the Americans haven't tried yet. Maybe not many of them, but my new business is based on one of them and it wasn't that hard to find. The European company mine is modeled after is not doing well because they've made a fatal flaw in their implementation that's preventing their growth, and it seems their management do…

It's not that there aren't ideas coming from Europe to the US; it's rather that there's not a statistically significant number of American startups that are knock-offs of European ones. The converse isn't true. That there exist European copies of American companies doesn't bother me in the least; that they're probably half of the European startups does.

Re: Ask HN: Is making clones bad?

#49

Post by palish » Mon, Dec 29, 2008, 9:20 AM UTC

Raphael wrote: post #45

palish wrote: post #35

Awe. I thought this would be a philosophical discussion about the merits of human cloning.

It's so easy to make people naturally that it would be pointless to make more than a few clones, just to prove it can be done. The same applies to apps. If you are looking for a programming or design exercise and can't think of anything original, rewrite an app you like.

Mm, consider what it would be like to not be forced to wait for a heart transplant. At that point, you could grow your own.

Of course, that would be quite controversial.

Re: Ask HN: Is making clones bad?

#50

Post by Raphael » Mon, Dec 29, 2008, 12:41 PM UTC

palish wrote: post #49

Raphael wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so easy to make people naturally that it would be pointless to make more than a few clones, just to prove it can be done. The same applies to apps. If you are looking for a programming or design exercise and can't think of anything original, rewrite an app you like.

Mm, consider what it would be like to not be forced to wait for a heart transplant. At that point, you could grow your own. Of course, that would be quite controversial.

Well, I think it would be less controversial to grow organs in pigs or just on their own. If you grow an actual human, he will probably want a say in the matter.