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Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

foreignpolicy.com

641–650 of 761 posts

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#641

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the EU cares about its citizen's privacy why does it do everything in its power to spy on its own citizens?

Are you talking about the "Chat Control" that keeps on getting shut down?

It was not shut down, it will certainly come. The DSA is another tool that is already in effect. Bit by bit all the pieces of a surveillance state are coming together in the EU.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#642

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seem to have confused "tech market" with "tech industry".

IDK, are local products and products from elsewhere other than US are not meant when one says "european tech market"? The title says the market is in danger of going out of existence, and the article solely mentions a handful of big US companies AFAICT. Or maybe it's a dig at Europe for having large parts of its market dominated by US companies, and I'm missing that.

The market is defined by the buyers, not the sellers.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#643
post #375
post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anything that gets close gets bought or killed by non-european giants. Tencent buys basically all game companies, microsoft buys basically all communication companies (skype, nokia come to mind), google buys basically everything. Even ARM is owned by Softbank after starting out in the UK. The Automotive industry and ASML are just about the only things resistant to this because they're so large already; Automotive act…

There is an issue with that perspective though. The Europeans sell out. Ok. Maybe they are bad at valuation and don't realise that their companies are worth more than they are being paid for. Or maybe an EU company can't capture as much value as a US/Chinese company. And those are really the only two options - either the decision is rational or irrational. If it is an irrational decision then there isn't much to talk…

> There is an issue with that perspective though. The Europeans sell out. Ok. Maybe they are bad at valuation and don't realise that their companies are worth more than they are being paid for. Or maybe an EU company can't capture as much value as a US/Chinese company. And those are really the only two options - either the decision is rational or irrational. If it is an irrational decision then there isn't much to talk about. But it is probably the second case - selling out to someone on a different continent generates value. And there is a good chance that is because it helps avoid EU regulators.

I think it comes down to two things:

1) The US is a large, uniform (regulation, language, media, etc.) making it easier to grow quickly. This puts the US competitor in a better place to buy the EU competitor than vice-versa.

2) More significantly, the US capital market is bigger & better. That starts with VC funding but is also the case with IPOs and publicly traded companies. That‘s how the EU tech standouts such as Spotify end up IPOing in the US.

#2 is certainly something the EU can work on improving but it has very little to do with tech regulation.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#644
post #640

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you are publicly traded there is little you can do to prevent people buying shares Nobody can force you to sell your shares. Nobody can force you to make your company public. It's all voluntary. You can't have your cake and eat it. Want to get that juicy foreign investor money then cry that the foreigners are taking over?

I have a low tolerance for absurdly stupid comments. Once you sell a share you don't get to control who it is sold to afterwards, you could give shares to people as stock-options, and they are (rightly) going to sell their shares regardless who the buyer is, only based on the price. So. Seriously, shut the fuck up, you're suggesting that the only answer is isolationism. Identification of an issue (people buying up Eu…

Your anger comes from your frustration, your frustration comes from realizing that you're wrong.

If you want to keep control of a company - or anything - within certain hands, then you can't sell that thing to others. As evident by millions of companies never having their shares publicly listed or sold on any market. If you sell, you have to accept that you don't have any control of who owns in the future. You can't have your cake and eat it. Not even Europeans can do that.

"People buying up European talent" - they can only buy if Europeans are willing to sell. Such victims...

This reminds me of people complaining about foreign investors buying up real estate. But of course, no blame is to be put on the greedy sellers who slurped up that juicy foreign money.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#645
post #540

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Crypto comments aside, that could have happened on a Windows desktop too. Yet when MS tried to go walled garden with their store everyone complained. I don't see why Apple should get a free pass.

I guess with the iPhone it was walled from the start so anyone buying one knew what they were getting. I'd be pissed off if they walled gardened my mac. I've got an iPhone and have mixed feelings about the restrictions on it. They can be annoying but on the other hand I have significant investments and more and more banks are insisting you access them via an app and for that I'd probably prioritize security.

On the other hand, an example i've posted before: i want DaisyDisk for my iPhone. It will never be available as long as Apple can censor what's released for their phones.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#646

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Accenture, Siemens, Nokia, Ericsson, Capgemini, Atos, Dassault Systems, Bosch, Ahold Delhaize, Dassault Systèmes? maybe little known outside the EU, but the EU has something like 20% of the world's software developers. GP will have to explain to me, at a grade school level, how they want to differentiate big tech and BIG tech.

You're mixing up many things here: 1. Accenture, Capgemini and Atos are consulting companies that don't produce anything, they just rent out their code monkeys to the customers. And you know what those code monkeys are trained in? Software stacks that were created mostly in the US. 2. The rest of the companies you mention do not employ that many software developers. 3. They also do not deliver terribly popular, or im…

Is Tech only Software?

If so, Apple and Nvidia won‘t qualify. They‘re more of a hardware company.

BTW Bosch‘s main business is automotive supplies. They‘re doing everything down to having their own fabs for automotive chips. It‘s just completely invisible to us as consumers that‘s why you consider it a dishwashers, vacuum cleaners, and power tools company.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#647

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I think flash and actionscript might be a counterexample? People have different standards too. In thebearly days of win3.1 I liked apps that had different widget sets, now anything that doesn't look native is considered garbage. And some people seem to consider rastered fonts equivalent to baby-eating in a professional context. I don't think I have any common axioms or value systems to carry on conversations with the…

Flash is actually an example of how bad cross platform frameworks are compared to native.

Despite what Adobe said when the iPhone first came out, there was no way that Flash was ever going to run on the first generation iPhone. It had only 128MB RAM and 400 MHz processor. When Flash finally came to Mobile in late 2010 on Android, it required 1GB RAM and 1Ghz processor. An iPhone with those specs didn’t come out until 2011.

Heck Safari could barely run on the first iPhone, it would do checkerboards until rendering could catch up with the scrolling.

And if you remember Apple’s cross platform Windows apps - iTunes, QuickTime and the short lived Safari, they also looked very bad on Windows.

Both Google and Facebook at different times said they are moving away from cross platform frameworks and web based technologies for iOS to more native software. Google has all but abandoned their cross platform mobile framework.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#648

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, this is just how technology works. There is going to be a way that the vast majority of people want to communicate and if you don't want to use it, it's going to be a pain in the ass for you. This is always going to be the case, and nobody is under any obligation to accommodate you. If you didn't want to have a home phone in the 90s it would have been the same thing.

Of course but the argument was: "You're free to not be a user, but millions of other people want it.". So the notion that you have complete freedom is somewhat false…

Who is talking about complete freedom? Nobody who lives in any human society will ever have that.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#649
post #589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was a good product, but it took a lot of iteration to make it the juggernaut it is today. Add bad battery life to the list of flaws, along with slow web browsing, slow processor, etc. With all of those, and the high price, it was relatively niche. The 3G lowered the price substantially, and iirc that plus the faster modem gave it a big popularity boost. And the 4 was substantially more popular than that. My point…

I dunno if you were alive at the time but that's not really what happened. The first iPhone was really expensive but people bought it anyway because it was sooo far ahead of the competition. Until the iPhone most people didn't even bother with smart phones because they were so bad (Blackberry was a partial exception). The web browsing wasn't slow - part of what made it so compelling was that you could browse the real…

>I dunno if you were alive at the time but that's not really what happened.

I was pretty alive at the time, I was an intern on the iPhone team at Apple when it launched and the run-up, so I was using the first gen phone/touch all day every day, and I was paying pretty close attention to its launch (but just watching what was said in the press/by the people I knew, nothing privileged on the sales side). Looking around at sales figures, it looks like the first gen sold low single digit million units total, 1.4M in 2007. The 3G sold 1M on the first weekend (the press release tagline was "Twice as Fast at Half the Price", and that lower price is a big part of what brought it mainstream). Now they’re up to a couple hundred million phones per year.

I wouldn't say it was a "miss", it was very good compared to the status quo trash on the market, but it also wasn't the company defining success it turned into until the following gens, it made much less revenue than Macs at the time, and the Mac was pretty niche. My point was that it took a bit to really dial it in, and Apples first gen products don’t usually reflect their eventual success very well.

I don’t think Vision Pro is at 1M sold yet, and Apple products definitely have more sales reach now, but again, I wouldn’t count it out. I was pretty impressed when I tried it, they really nailed a lot of the hard technical problems, especially around text rendering, and if it was 1/3 the cost, I’d definitely have one now, maybe at 1/2. Which means that unless they really dilute the capabilities or drop the cost less than I expect, I’ll probably have one within the next couple of iterations (I'm also assuming they'll sub out the metal for cheaper/lighter materials to improve long-term comfort). But yeah, maybe it’ll end up being a modern day Newton, we’ll see.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#650

A company that provides a phone service (mobile or other) has to conform to a large amount of regulatory red tape. Why? because either a company before tried to monopolise the entire country, or they killed someone. Now, large tech companies haven't wholesale killed people (unlike say tobacco, or talc powder, 3M and half of their solvents, weed killer, most car makers, etc etc) but they have been trying desperately t…

Nobody is against regulation that disfavors large incumbents to support competition instead. You'll struggle to find people who are against the Digital Markets Act for this reason. It literally only targets the potential monopolists. However, virtually every other piece of regulation does the opposite. Regulation usually gets trotted out after the downside of doing [new innovation] is experienced. This always happens…

>Regulation usually gets trotted out after the downside of doing [new innovation] is experienced. This always happens, because doing something new always involves unknown risk.

I would challenge "unknown"-- it very well seems like the risks have been known every time, they just don't give a shit

>What's different now though, is the hysteria over AI is leading regulators to pass this incumbent-cementing regulation before we've even had a chance to experience ...

Sounds good to me? It's sociopathic and opportunistic to want to risk major socioeconomic issues for the mere chance of a corporate "innovation"

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