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Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

foreignpolicy.com

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Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#461

Post by fragmede »

lolinder wrote: post #177
fallingknife wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Apple was required to provide root access to all customers this would not prevent anyone from choosing to stay inside their walled garden.

The question isn't whether anyone could choose to stay inside if they want to, the question is whether I can trust that {insert older relative here} will stay inside the garden and not get tricked by a sketchy website into installing something through the back doors the EU is mandating. If the opening up of Apple were as difficult to use as getting root on Android is I wouldn't have a problem. But that's not what's b…

How difficult is it to get root in Android in your world? Getting root on Android comes in a variety of difficulties.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#462

Post by tivert »

dyauspitr wrote: post #438
1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #420

"Europeans could end up living in an online backwater with out-of-date phones, cut off from the rest of the world's search engines and social media sites, unable to even access high-performance computer chips." Sounds like a paradise. More healthy lifestyle. For most people much of this stuff is unnecessary. If one wants to live life "online", glued a screen digesting garbage and propaganda 24/7, then one can relocat…

It’s a short term paradise. You’re not going to be able to keep it that way when the rest of the world is more technologically advanced and you slip into poverty.

> It’s a short term paradise. You’re not going to be able to keep it that way when the rest of the world is more technologically advanced and you slip into poverty.

I think you're failing to make important distinctions. Being "less advanced" in algorithmic addiction machines, ad targeting, personal privacy invasion, or monopoly is not going to cause any of those things.

As an American, a good chunk of American consumer technology is more akin to a parasitic burden than any advantage.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#463

Post by Moldoteck »

ripped_britches wrote: post #442

I think it should be remembered that the personalized ads are not just valuable for ad platforms - most of the personalization value actually accrues to advertisers themselves, who basically represent the entire economy. EU regulators think their enemy is big American tech companies, but they are hurting their domestic advertisers and domestic economies even more. I am saying this as someone who hates seeing ads and…

Regardless, personalized ads are evil and should be banned at least for granular types. People will survive with less personalized ads but we'll avoid a lot of problems by ditching them

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#464

Post by Moldoteck »

fruit2020 wrote: post #190
whazor wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A more practical example is that Facebook cannot promote its marketplace anymore. In Europe there are local alternatives for market places that get disadvantaged. Spotify, an EU company, has to compete with Apple Music and YouTube Music. Both of which have their own mobile operating systems and markets. Now we get a lot of backlash from these big tech firms as for years they have been integrating services into their…

This is not always good for the end user. Now I have to go to google maps manually because it’s most of the time no longer integrated with google search

That's Google's fault. They could offer an api for other map providers to be displayed.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#465

Post by Moldoteck »

wmf wrote: post #195
fl0id wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

which doesn't make any sense, b/c afaik almost here AI regulations impact usage etc, not chip makers.

Some people are calling for GPUs to be nerfed but that's fringe at this point. If you wanted to create the most extreme strawman of EU regulation possible... maybe that's one example you'd come up with.

Even with nerfed gpus why would nvidia leave? I mean they sell lots of nerfed gpus to china

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#466

Post by generalizations »

fuzztester wrote: post #284
llm_trw wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenAI was smart enough to build a moat for itself in Europe. The EU was dumb enough to dig it for them.

how?

> This is entirely because the experts and fundraisers in the field promoted the technology as existentially and societally dangerous

> regulators...take that seriously

That's how.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#467

Post by ekianjo »

TylerE wrote: post #398
ekianjo wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

remove names then. problem solved.

There are still plenty of proxies that can amount to the same thing. Not a lot of white graduates of HBCUs, for instance. Are we removing the names of all schools, too?

if you dont want to favor ivy leagues that would be the next thing to remove yes

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#468

Post by Moldoteck »

brigadier132 wrote: post #90
kredd wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. Unless I misunderstood your point it sounds like, what you guys have right now is good for people and their lives. Isn't that the entire point of life? I can see why general population might support it, while us techies would be pushing for deregulation and less of work-life balance. So my understanding of these articles is "it might be bad in a long term!", but Europe is still big enough market for all…

> what you guys have right now is good for people and their lives Let's see how long it lasts, Europe's economy is terrible and their people are significantly poorer. I don't think their current welfare state is sustainable without tax revenue from large businesses. Eventually every European citizen will be a waiter, hotel staff, or a tour guide.

Poorer is debatable. Ppl in eu usually can afford going to a hospital or going to school/uni- for us it isn't that straightforward

And saying eventually everyone will cater to tourism is peak us ignorance. The tourism sector in eu is fairly small, even in the (over) touristic italy. Just the fact you mentioned this leads me to think you are an ignorant american that likes how people suffer from being poor and being exploited by big corpos...

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#469

Post by tivert »

jonnybgood wrote: post #414
toomuchtodo wrote: post #401

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand you were rebutting OPs point that not every tech company is a capital furnace, but when framed in this manner, this sounds like something to be solved, not something to be proud of. That’s the difference between the EU and the US, and there is a strong case to be made that life is better in the EU when observing majorities. Who is benefiting from Apple’s profits being the size of a small country’s GDP? N…

> Who is benefiting from Apple’s profits being the size of a small country’s GDP? Not most people, therefore, why would this be optimized for? Off the top of my head, probably the millions of people who have a pension through one of Apple’s institutional investors like CalPERS. The effects of Apple’s profitability goes far and wide.

> Off the top of my head, probably the millions of people who have a pension through one of Apple’s institutional investors like CalPERS. The effects of Apple’s profitability goes far and wide.

That's like a member of the working poor who owns one share of stock, "benefiting" from company lobbying to keep the minimum wage down.

He's got two-hundredths of a cent more in dividends, and has lost many hundreds of dollars in potential wages.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#470

Post by generalizations »

tivert wrote: post #454
runday198 wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What an interesting point of view. Very European. I wonder what will those Europeans do that do need the high-performance computer chips to create something new, to innovate. They will probably move to those whacked out societies.

> What an interesting point of view. Very European. I wonder what will those Europeans do that do need the high-performance computer chips to create something new, to innovate. You mean the ones fabricated with European photolithography machines? I think you missed the GP's point: a lot of so-called "innovation" is crap, providing as much true value as a parasite (maybe one of those lovely ones that will kill you if…

> You mean the ones fabricated with European photolithography machines?

Interesting discussion recently, I forget if it was on here. Those lithography machines are built with the worst spaghetti code imaginable and the engineering is so close to black magic that development is painfully slow. In other words, that space is ripe for disruption and there might be some attempts at that in the near future.

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