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Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

foreignpolicy.com

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Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#431

Post by ericd »

ilrwbwrkhv wrote: post #294
echoangle wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is apple impacted if Vision Pro fails? You think they care about the lost R&D cost? Or do you think others will leapfrog them in the VR/AR space?

This is the first product miss. And I don't know where Apple goes from here. Others will also leapfrog them is my instinct. Basically they are too big now and startups have a chance of beating both Google and Apple.

Nah, the first iPhone was too expensive, slow, and limited in capabilities (no App Store). They quickly iterated to improve on all of that. The first watch also kind of sucked. The initial iPod wasn’t a blockbuster, either - didn’t work well on Windows, required FireWire. I’m sure there are other initial misses. I think there’s something there with Vision Pro, they just need to iterate and get the cost down.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#432

Post by bawolff »

no_wizard wrote: post #191
pembrook wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is against regulation that disfavors large incumbents to support competition instead. You'll struggle to find people who are against the Digital Markets Act for this reason. It literally only targets the potential monopolists. However, virtually every other piece of regulation does the opposite. Regulation usually gets trotted out after the downside of doing [new innovation] is experienced. This always happens…

Specifically with AI I don’t want to experience the downside of innovation before we regulate because of how wide spread its use already is, and it’s problems have already become apparent. For example, it’s being used to job screen applicants even though we have proven that AI models still suffer from thing like racial bias. Companies don’t disclose how their models are trained to negate bias or anything like that ei…

> For example, it’s being used to job screen applicants even though we have proven that AI models still suffer from thing like racial bias.

Can't we just say racism is illegal, and if a company uses an AI to be racist, they get fined the same way they would if they were racist the old fashioned way?

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#434

Post by cynicalsecurity »

lolinder wrote: post #288
ApolloFortyNine wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going out of your way on the internet to defend apples right to take 30% of every sale on the app store is insane to me. Just how can you not see there's probably 20% of every purchase sitting on the table if competition was ever allowed to occur. Not to mention the simple freedom of choosing what you want to install yourself, and not just what Apple allows you to...

> Not to mention the simple freedom of choosing what you want to install yourself, and not just what Apple allows you to... I have the freedom to install whatever I want. I get that freedom by using Linux and Android. I choose to have that freedom by selecting platforms that provide it. Many HN users seem to want all the benefits of Apple's approach with none of the downsides, and it doesn't work that way. Apple is w…

The Apple are trying to hijack the ecosystem of free competition and open market.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#435

Post by edmundsauto »

kube-system wrote: post #412
edmundsauto wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hard part about reality is the opposite is also true. Cancer patients have gatekept access to cutting edge drugs, etc. I believe your worldview is correct and also incomplete. It’s really fucking hard to come up with general rules that cannot be gamed.

I wasn't attempting to express my entire worldview in a comment. Yes, technology often brings both risk and reward. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't recognize/criticize/discuss those risks.

My perspective is that framing them as “unrecognized risks” is wrongs. We are mostly engineers - what happened to “tradeoffs”?

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#436

Post by edmundsauto »

esalman wrote: post #404
KaiserPro wrote: post #88

A company that provides a phone service (mobile or other) has to conform to a large amount of regulatory red tape. Why? because either a company before tried to monopolise the entire country, or they killed someone. Now, large tech companies haven't wholesale killed people (unlike say tobacco, or talc powder, 3M and half of their solvents, weed killer, most car makers, etc etc) but they have been trying desperately t…

Large tech companies haven't wholesale killed people in the same way big tobacco haven't killed any people. Nobody smokes a cigarette and immediately die. But one would have to be immensely dense not to see the correlation between smoking habit and lung disease, or Facebook refusing to moderate social media activity in Burma and some of the worst atrocities committed on humans anywhere this century.

Smoking is causative - did you mean to imply the same for the Burna situation?

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#437

Post by pragmaticd »

awesomeMilou wrote: post #429
roenxi wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is an issue with that perspective though. The Europeans sell out. Ok. Maybe they are bad at valuation and don't realise that their companies are worth more than they are being paid for. Or maybe an EU company can't capture as much value as a US/Chinese company. And those are really the only two options - either the decision is rational or irrational. If it is an irrational decision then there isn't much to talk…

> Nokia was blown out of the market by superior Chinese manufacturing and US design [0]. No, Nokia was blown out of the market via the exclusive deal with Microsoft, which in turn made the dumbest management decisions ever. Nokia bled under the horrible management of Steve Ballmer and their own ignorance with regards to Android. They also proved later on that you don't need any expertise to produce decent Android pho…

Exactly. Part of Nokia still lives on in Jolla and they have a modest team.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#438

Post by dyauspitr »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #420

"Europeans could end up living in an online backwater with out-of-date phones, cut off from the rest of the world's search engines and social media sites, unable to even access high-performance computer chips." Sounds like a paradise. More healthy lifestyle. For most people much of this stuff is unnecessary. If one wants to live life "online", glued a screen digesting garbage and propaganda 24/7, then one can relocat…

It’s a short term paradise. You’re not going to be able to keep it that way when the rest of the world is more technologically advanced and you slip into poverty.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#439

Post by FabHK »

lolinder wrote: post #314
mikem170 wrote: post #308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You mentioned users leaving Apple for Facebook. Does that change the garden for you? Can't users such as yourself remain in the Apple ecosystem? Do other users leaving affect you? Or Apple? Maybe they won't have as much cash? Does Apple deserve the extra cash in perpetuity for being the first with the network effect? There might be a lot of better ideas out there, if they were given a chance, like Apple had back befo…

From my comment (emphasis in the original): > abusive apps (Facebook et al) will start ushering users away from it into their own, abusive paths as the only way to install > Do other users leaving affect you? To clarify, I'm not an Apple user. I use their competitors in all categories because they're not really my style. (Yes, choosing something other than Apple is a choice you can make!) I'm just someone who feels t…

The path you describe is so realistic.

Facebook will leave the AppStore. Grandma can’t find Facebook anymore on her new iPhone, and will google “how to install Facebook on iPhone”. Thousands of websites will SEO for that, and give instructions (“There will be a popup that says ‘You might install dangerous software. Are you sure?’ Press YES.”) on how to install their AppStore with some Facebook clone/spyware/VPN MITM attack/keyloggers. They will have complete control of grandma’s phone, collect all the data they want. Soon she’ll have a new default browser with 7 toolbars, a new search engine, and be mining crypto on the side.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#440

Post by viraptor »

pembrook wrote: post #124
KaiserPro wrote: post #88

A company that provides a phone service (mobile or other) has to conform to a large amount of regulatory red tape. Why? because either a company before tried to monopolise the entire country, or they killed someone. Now, large tech companies haven't wholesale killed people (unlike say tobacco, or talc powder, 3M and half of their solvents, weed killer, most car makers, etc etc) but they have been trying desperately t…

Nobody is against regulation that disfavors large incumbents to support competition instead. You'll struggle to find people who are against the Digital Markets Act for this reason. It literally only targets the potential monopolists. However, virtually every other piece of regulation does the opposite. Regulation usually gets trotted out after the downside of doing [new innovation] is experienced. This always happens…

> You'll struggle to find people who are against the Digital Markets Act for this reason

You missed most of the discussions about DMA on HN, I guess. There's always someone ready to say how EU will kill all innovation and make Google/Apple exit the market because they dare to question anything.

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