Live data from Hacker News

MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

ocw.mit.edu

91–100 of 137 posts

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#91
My radical solution (in addition to build build build).

Tax something like $1,000 per day that a unit is unoccupied (aka not in residential lease or commercial with x number of employees assigned there).

Buy and hold empty is not sustainable. Also Airbnb can go to hell.

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a distribution problem. We don't have enough pie (houses). We need more houses. Not a campaign to distribute a massive shortage slightly more evenly.

There are more empty second homes than homeless people in my state. By a factor of 10. It's a distribution problem.

Homeless people make up about .2% of the US, so multiplied by 10 and that's 2%. If your country only has 1.02 people's worth of food per person, that's more of a shortage than a distribution problem. The same goes for housing.

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#93
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> don’t see how those are trivially worked around in a country with a half decent government Look at how people abuse rent controlled apartments. (All the way up to the current mayor.) > People are not just going to give their relatives title to their property This is literally what happens in places with such taxes. I wouldn’t bat an eye buying a house in my partner or a parent’s name if it saved 3x property taxes.

> I wouldn’t bat an eye buying a house in my partner or a parent’s name if it saved 3x property taxes. That sounds like the policy had the desired effect. I.e home ownership is spread out across many people. Those people cannot then own properties without being subject to those extra taxes. They'd be giving something up to help you, so would presumably benefiting somehow from your scheme.

> those people cannot then own properties without being subject to those extra taxes

...neither can an individual today. The point is one person still controls multiple properties.

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is everyone (ok, fine, mostly economics & tech people) convinced this is such a wildly viable slam dunk of an idea? Have y'all ever opened up a wall before and seen the electrical, plumbing, etc mechanical bits that make up a home? Any idea of what it'd cost to chop up that office space and feed every individual piece the necessary bits? It's outrageous that we're even talking about this idea still. It'd require…

Houses are like a million dollars. Some plumbing is maybe 10k?

Have you talked with contractors recently? It costs a lot more than you seem to think it does.

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's trivially easy to monitor or seize real property Anyone who owns property should be horrified at the notion of making it “trivially easy” to seize real property. That turns this into electoral toast. Its only utility is in distracting from zoning reform. Also, the homeownership rate is 65% [1]. Second homeowners aren’t the problem. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/RHORUSQ156N

> (Also, homeownership is 65% [1]. Second homeowners aren’t the problem.) Is there a breakdown on what portion of this 65% own multiple homes? Personally, I’m not a fan of anyone who has more than 2 homes. One primary and one vacation or rental. Why does anyone need more than that?

Some people are professional small landlords. It’s an incredibly valuable service for people who don’t want the headache of home maintenance, and there are very significant economies of scale - 1 unit is generally not worth doing unless you really enjoy diy.

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#96

Genuine Question, why can't we just charge a federal property tax 3-4x local property taxes for individuals who own >1 property (which would likely be distributed back to the locality, specifics not important), apply the same rules we do for pass-through taxation to mitigate loopholes, and automatically charge this elevated rate for properties owned by non-natural persons? I think this would just price in the externa…

You know who would pay those property taxes? The renters. Not the owners. The owners just pass those taxes onto the renters.

What would actually help is the reverse, i.e. abolish property taxes and reduce rents by that much.

If that was done I'd save money faster and be able to buy 1 house for myself sooner.

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#97

Genuine Question, why can't we just charge a federal property tax 3-4x local property taxes for individuals who own >1 property (which would likely be distributed back to the locality, specifics not important), apply the same rules we do for pass-through taxation to mitigate loopholes, and automatically charge this elevated rate for properties owned by non-natural persons? I think this would just price in the externa…

> Genuine Question, why can't we just charge a federal property tax 3-4x local property taxes for individuals who own >1 property (which would likely be distributed back to the locality, specifics not important) I am that person. I own two duplexes in addition to my primary residence, for a total of four residential rental units – all 2/1s made up of ~750 sq ft each. Those additional properties that I own provide hou…

Fellow housing provider here. To your point about scraping the lots and building SFHs, I would counter the solution to that is to outlaw zoning for SFHs for tear downs. Raw land, go for it. But if a structure stood on a parcel, you can only increase density when rebuilding and upzone. This also potentially avoids situations like Naperville, Illinois, where you have a housing shortage at the same time obscenely wealthy folks tear down older modest homes to build McMansions to the lot lines.

https://legallysociable.com/2021/12/28/new-publication-more-...

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Genuine Question, why can't we just charge a federal property tax 3-4x local property taxes for individuals who own >1 property (which would likely be distributed back to the locality, specifics not important) I am that person. I own two duplexes in addition to my primary residence, for a total of four residential rental units – all 2/1s made up of ~750 sq ft each. Those additional properties that I own provide hou…

Fellow housing provider here. To your point about scraping the lots and building SFHs, I would counter the solution to that is to outlaw zoning for SFHs for tear downs. Raw land, go for it. But if a structure stood on a parcel, you can only increase density when rebuilding and upzone. This also potentially avoids situations like Naperville, Illinois, where you have a housing shortage at the same time obscenely wealth…

That would be a bad idea because the problem isnt the need to increase density, that is obvious and wanted by nearly everybody building. The provlem is the zoning often limits lot coverage to one or two units and some percentage less than 50 % coverage. You dont jave to be a dick to the one guy in the hundred building that wants a small single family and lots of land, you need to let the other 99 act in their own self interest and build much higher density with a much jigher unit count.

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are more empty second homes than homeless people in my state. By a factor of 10. It's a distribution problem.

Only if you have such a loose definition of vacant where it includes people who haven't yet moved into their newly acquired house.

Or the recreational properties. My 2 bedroom 80+ year old cabin that isn't fit for winter season gets used every weekend in the summer for 4 months but counts as vacant for my province, mevermind that it is W hours from any major non agricultural employment opportunitiesx

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fellow housing provider here. To your point about scraping the lots and building SFHs, I would counter the solution to that is to outlaw zoning for SFHs for tear downs. Raw land, go for it. But if a structure stood on a parcel, you can only increase density when rebuilding and upzone. This also potentially avoids situations like Naperville, Illinois, where you have a housing shortage at the same time obscenely wealth…

That would be a bad idea because the problem isnt the need to increase density, that is obvious and wanted by nearly everybody building. The provlem is the zoning often limits lot coverage to one or two units and some percentage less than 50 % coverage. You dont jave to be a dick to the one guy in the hundred building that wants a small single family and lots of land, you need to let the other 99 act in their own sel…

My suggestion does not prevent a SFH and lots of land entirely, only if an existing structure was torn down to make way for it. You can still buy an existing SFH, or build one on vacant land. You simply can’t replace an existing SFH or multi family with another SFH. Density line only go up.
Post reply on HN