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Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

foreignpolicy.com

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Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#331

Post by no_wizard »

627467 wrote: post #291
no_wizard wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Specifically with AI I don’t want to experience the downside of innovation before we regulate because of how wide spread its use already is, and it’s problems have already become apparent. For example, it’s being used to job screen applicants even though we have proven that AI models still suffer from thing like racial bias. Companies don’t disclose how their models are trained to negate bias or anything like that ei…

there maybe better examples of why AI biases provide deep systemic problems but: CV screening? are contemporary LLM really worse that previous screening tech and processes?

You realize this is a huge problem right? Even if that was my only complaint (it’s not!) that is 100% not acceptable. If it’s doing it with CVs it’s doing it with other things in other scenarios.

Another is that a health insurance company was caught using AI to determine if a claim should be denied or not which lead to a scandal as a whistleblower leaked the practice, as it was wrought with errors and ethical concerns

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#332

Post by autoexec »

RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #327
autoexec wrote: post #180

The EU is free to pass laws preventing gatekeepers and insisting on interoperability requirements and Apple is free to refuse to do that and not offer their non-competitive gatekeeping products in the EU. There's zero reason to think that this will mean the EU won't have a tech market. It just won't have one that includes Apple products which refuse to follow the law. Seems like a massive win for the EU, and because…

> The EU is free to pass laws preventing gatekeepers and insisting on interoperability requirements and Apple is free to refuse to do that and not offer their non-competitive gatekeeping products in the EU. Apple is also free to lobby the US government and people to take action against the EU. Especially if Trump gets elected, Apple complaining about Europe taking advantage of American companies would resonate with a…

Why should the US government care if Apple chooses not to sell some of their products in the EU because they don't want to abide by the EU's laws? The EU isn't taking advantage of US companies, or looking to pressure the US. The EU has every right to set their own laws and businesses can decide for themselves if they want to sell their products there. The fact that Russia exists doesn't change that.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#333

Post by theshackleford »

standardUser wrote: post #168
lolinder wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You'll struggle to find people who are against the Digital Markets Act for this reason. It literally only targets the potential monopolists. I'm against the way it's being applied to Apple. I don't think that the government should dictate that consumers aren't allowed to choose a platform that's a locked down walled garden if that's what they want. We have platforms that aren't walled gardens (Android) that many of…

Apple needs to get out of the infrastructure business if they want to play by their own rules. They aren't selling Gameboys and washing machines, they are storing people's private data and selling primary communication devices. That needs to be regulated and the consumer needs to have the final say, not Apple.

> consumer needs to have the final say, not Apple.

And consumers spoke, and now other consumers unhappy with those consumers choices, are demanding the deal be changed.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#334

Post by radley »

spongebobstoes wrote: post #20
radley wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spotify benefitted from starting in the EU.

I haven't heard that perspective before, can you elaborate?

By my understanding, they didn't have to pay for the exorbitant North American interactive music licenses during their first five year. The EU rates were much more reasonable (plus I think they got grants and govt support?), allowing them to test the market and grow before entering the US.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#335

Post by ADeerAppeared »

thrance wrote: post #77

I wish targeted advertising was made completely illegal here, I am sure our society would greatly benefit from that.

I have some excellent news for you about the legality of targeted advertising under the GDPR.

The GDPR is very clear about this. Advertising is not a legitimate interest or a functionally-required data processing, ergo, it may only be done with user consent. And that user consent may not be coerced in any way at all, you may not even refuse access to services if users reject their data being used.

It's taking a while to go up and down the courts, but the days of ad-tech are numbered.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#336

Post by spiderice »

skywhopper wrote: post #119
cheptsov wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m living in Europe, I'm deeply disappointed by the current situation. The problems run much deeper than just regulations; they extend far beyond politics. 1. VCs outright avoid investing in deep tech, with only rare exceptions. 2. Founders overwhelmingly choose to build small, sustainable companies, steering clear of big tech. 3. Employees consistently prefer consulting jobs and value vacation days over equity. 4.…

Wait, these are problems? Other than #4 they all sound like good things.

A working base that values vacation days over equity doesn’t sound like a place I’d want to start a business.

And I’m not the only one. Many companies don’t hire in Europe because it’s too risky to get a dud employee that you can’t fire without having to pay their salary for the next 6 months.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#337

Post by jokethrowaway »

theshackleford wrote: post #333
standardUser wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple needs to get out of the infrastructure business if they want to play by their own rules. They aren't selling Gameboys and washing machines, they are storing people's private data and selling primary communication devices. That needs to be regulated and the consumer needs to have the final say, not Apple.

> consumer needs to have the final say, not Apple. And consumers spoke, and now other consumers unhappy with those consumers choices, are demanding the deal be changed.

Democracy is the dictatorship of the majority.

But it doesn't have to be, you can simply NOT regulate every damn little thing, especially when there are no victims and you are forbidding a simple trade between two entities who are both willing to engage.

No, developers who want to make money on the Apple Store are not victims. They can develop for Linux and sell apps there if they don't want to pay what Apple wants.

I'm one of them, I'm not supporting Apple or Google and I build everything on the web paying nothing.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#338

Post by jokethrowaway »

orbital-decay wrote: post #273

Didn't US lose most of its production capability for the same reason? US protected its workers' rights, but there are other places with cheap labor treating the workers like shit, so businesses are using factories in other places, which then build massive expertise at production. This is similar. EU is trying to protect the rights of its citizens for good, but there are also places like US where rights are less prote…

They're not rights, they're needs. They don't have space in regulation.

If you want privacy, purchase the privacy conscious option. Don't force the entire market to make ads worthless, forcing companies to charge for things, forcing ME and my adblock to pay for crap I got for free until yesterday.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#339

Post by jokethrowaway »

hintymad wrote: post #315

I'm curious on why European people allow such heavy regulation. They really think that the Europe can enjoy their prosperity with little innovation for years to come?

There are too many layers of government.

We have no way to influence what our leaders do in our own governments. Go figure how much our representative in the EU parliament will be able to represent the will of the people.

Ask anyone in EU who is their country representative. They won't be able to tell you. Heck, ask who the president of the EU commission is. Nobody will be able to tell you and she's been ruining our lives for 5 years already.

MEP are just partying with the lobbyist in Bruxelles and challenging each other who can get the bigger bribe.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#340

Post by ADeerAppeared »

okanat wrote: post #250
cheptsov wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except EU doesn’t have big tech.

EU didn't go into an uncontrolled spree investing every company that had .com in its name and ruined thousands of lives and wasted billions of dollars. EU usually doesn't let companies to grow uncontrollable sizes that the government is completely controlled by them not the citizens. The existence of Big Tech means that the government did a very poor job in protecting the consumers and the free and fair market

> EU didn't go into an uncontrolled spree investing every company that had .com in its name and ruined thousands of lives and wasted billions of dollars.

This is the thing that so many Americans in tech don't seem to understand. VC Twitter is full of smugposting about how the US has "$5 trillion market-cap of startups" and the EU doesn't.

And what they miss is that the EU doesn't want Silicon Valley. It doesn't want the "trillions in startups". Because essentially none of them turn any profit. Why on earth would anyone want $5 trillion dollars in companies that do not make financial sense yet have awful externalities.

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