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Stripe acquires Lemon Squeezy

lemonsqueezy.com

121–130 of 220 posts

Re: Stripe acquires Lemon Squeezy

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well said. We've offered for many years to our customers to pay by CC, bank transfer or Bitcoin. Exactly 0 people wanted to pay by Bitcoin, while the other two options are at about 50/50.

What are you selling?

I don't want to go into details here, but it is something very traditional and unexciting that all kinds of people buy. We offered Bitcoin payment just as prominent as other forms of payment, but nobody was interested.

Re: Stripe acquires Lemon Squeezy

#123

Merchant of Record is a cool feature to have-- Stripe Tax works well but the pricing structure is horrible. Paying a flat fee for dedicated tax handling would be considerably better! Now if only we could somehow get MoR for marketplaces...

MoR has become a definitive advantage at least here in the UK - to the point where I'm not sure any other arrangement currently makes sense for the kind of tech startups we often discuss here on HN.

For one thing we have the Making Tax Digital VAT reporting rules as soon as we cross our domestic VAT registration threshold (which is lower than £100k of annualised revenue within the scope of UK VAT so something a high growth startup is going to want to cross pretty quickly). To comply with those rules we need a 100% automated system for transferring VAT records from any services we use to collect payments into our MTD-compliant VAT reporting software. I'm still waiting for anyone to show me an easy and cost-effective way to do that properly with any non-MoR payment service provider. AFAIK none of the PSPs I've ever used has any documentation on how to do this, nor do any of the VAT reporting systems I've used since MTD came in. I'm not sure all of the approved reporting systems have the kind of API available that you'd need to implement this kind of data transfer even with significant programming/integration effort.

And that's only the easy case of domestic collection and reporting. Internationally there are several services that will accurately calculate the required tax for you based on whatever rules apply wherever your customer is and whatever they are buying (you hope) but again that's only the relatively easy part. You also need to handle all the registration, tax reporting, possibly specific customer invoicing requirements, and tax remittance obligations everywhere they might apply. Obviously that's completely impractical for any SME that isn't a tax specialist because no business at that scale has lawyers and accountants in every relevant part of the world to advise them and manage those relationships with the local tax authorities. In sensible places there are again thresholds for local sales where you don't have to do anything about tax until you're also doing a significant amount of business there that isn't going to happen overnight but who wants to try to work out everywhere in the world that isn't sensible like that?

Merchants of record usually charge pretty hefty fees compared to vanilla payment service providers but they're essentially a combination of automating a lot of pain and an insurance policy. Apparently the global tax system is now sufficiently opaque and risky that the market estimates the compliance overhead to be around 6-7% of all relevant trade worldwide.

Re: Stripe acquires Lemon Squeezy

#124

> Nine months after our public launch in 2021, we surpassed $1M in ARR and never looked back. Stripe is buying a lucrative business, but more importantly it is buying the complex knowhow of running an international tax-compliant merchant of record. They can then integrate this into their product. I switched to LemonSqueezy primarily out of concern for EU-wide tax ramifications (EU strikes again). Is there a reason to…

I've never understood the notion that US based companies have it easier. They still to pay applicable tax in every country/state that their customers reside. If anything, EU companies have it slightly easier because they can file all of their EU-based taxes using One Stop Shop.

You can do Non-Union OSS as a US company as well. I’d say the most annoying thing about the EU is their minimum transaction to start filing is very low compared to US Nexus rules.

Re: Stripe acquires Lemon Squeezy

#125

I find the whole aspect of having MoR a fear mongering tactic to get you to pay extra transaction fees 99% of SaaS won't reach the MRR needed to justify MoR Of the 1% those breaking through 7 digit MRR can simply hire in house to manage tax remittance and not confuse their customers with invoices labelled with MoR's branding All in all this seems like the fear campaign has worked beautifully for Paddle and Lemonsquee…

As an Australian, I kicked the tyres on a few of these products and quickly realised that I didn’t care. Didn’t care about my supposed tax liability in Saudi Arabia. I think I owe those guys $7. Come and get it. Or in Serbia. Or the EU, more broadly. Or in the province of Saskatchewan. All of which I theoretically owe sales tax. I’m registered for GST in Australia. I live in Australia. I will slavishly follow Austral…

The problem with the ostrich argument is always that it works until it doesn't. Governments have talked about more international cooperation on tax reporting and collection forever. One of these days they're going to start including serious measures for these things as a routine part of trade deals or other big agreements. They have increasingly easy targets as so many online sales now go through a relatively small number of payment systems like Paypal and Stripe that are distributed enough that they could effectively be compelled to cooperate with any new reporting obligations. Then it's going to be a case of small businesses selling internationally commit an average of N offences per day somewhere in the world because it's impractical not to so if you're the unlucky one they decide to make an example out of then that's going to really spoil your day.

As someone who wants to do the right thing but would also like their business to actually do something useful and not spend 95% of its time doing admin work this is the kind of thing that stops me sleeping well at night. It's also why I've become something of an advocate of MoRs and a critic of basically all other traditional payment service providers. I fear the reckoning is a matter of when and not if and so passing the buck to an organisation that actually has a fighting chance of complying may be the only reasonable survival strategy. Of course then I lie awake worrying about the lack of competition in the MoR space - not helped by today's announcement in all honesty - and the dangers of being so heavily integrated with a specific third party service that can't easily be replaced and yet is critical to the sales process. What a time to be running a business in a world where this kind of international sales should be thriving.

Re: Stripe acquires Lemon Squeezy

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, Guillermo is a (great) developer at heart and spirit. He also happens to have found ways to profit from that.

> Their most recent funding round was a $150m Series D at a whopping $2.5b valuation back in 2021, to give you a sense of the size of the company. How much are they worth now? I can only imagine their valuation has dropped. Does anyone use Vercel beyond free / low plans?

Valuing a VC backed company like Vercel really is a bit of a crap shoot. Even major, publicly held companies aren't valued based on things like annual revenue, profits, or anything that shows up on a P&L.

Vercel is worth exactly what the last person paid for it. There's no real way to come up with another valuation until there's another liquidity event.

Another way to look at it, the last round of investors are valuing in-predictions for future value and have access to potentially private information and financials. From the outside it's not really possible to come up with a valuation to compare to there's, we'd be working with a totally different set of data.

Re: Stripe acquires Lemon Squeezy

#128
These ISV's are really squeezing the juice out of their customers with those rates aren't they? Even Stripe's rates are horrible, but 500 basis points and 50c/tx is really something... but to be fair ISV's are by definition vertical integrators and have more feature offerings.

Re: Stripe acquires Lemon Squeezy

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stripe has a history of cutting off payments to businesses which are violating the TOS. Stripe's TOS is largely a result of rules in place by banks and credit card companies. If Stripe don't shut them off, they get shut off. To the extent they've made errors, I'd like to see you do better. The scale is enormous, there are fraudsters coming at you left and right. It's not an easy game to play.

The number one justification for cryptocurrency in my book, even if it's less safe or convenient or even has small fees. Your business being subject to the whims of payment processors is ludicrous. Even with this being the justification, they could just say they won't be working with the customer in the future, not literally steal their customer's already earned money.

Instead you should advocate for payment network neutrality. Visa and MasterCard should be required by US law not to discriminate against transactions, and enforcement should move from the private sector to, well, law enforcement. Like with ACH/FedNow. That might actually get us somewhere productive.

Re: Stripe acquires Lemon Squeezy

#130

This company screams “Stripe please buy me” so so much. From branding to the all UVP, it was a fast exit because it was meant to be. Still a massive achievement

Totally and this is the problem with startup founders of today. Their minds are filled with liquidity and an exit event. Steve Jobs had famously said how pathetic that is. And Zuckerberg, love or hate him, turned down billion dollars. Selling your startup is not a good plan. Make it big, change the world, and swim in money.

Damn, what a cringe 'company'. Jobs was right, founders who act like this are embarrassing.
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