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MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

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Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#21
post #15

Genuine Question, why can't we just charge a federal property tax 3-4x local property taxes for individuals who own >1 property (which would likely be distributed back to the locality, specifics not important), apply the same rules we do for pass-through taxation to mitigate loopholes, and automatically charge this elevated rate for properties owned by non-natural persons? I think this would just price in the externa…

I disagree with your "natural" person qualification. "Non-natural persons" includes anyone with a work visa or green card. It's hard enough for most people to get these, much less become fully naturalized citizens. Plus, the waiting time isn't guaranteed in length: it's variable based on the political climate. It's hard enough for immigrants today. Making the viability of home ownership based on political whims only…

"Natural" and "naturalized" do not refer to the same concept. "Natural person" includes those with work visas or green cards.

>A natural person is a living human being. Legal systems can attach rights and duties to natural persons without their express consent.

>The concept of a natural person appears in business law and bankruptcy law, where it provides a contrast with an artificial person or a legal person which is an entity that is treated as a person for legal purposes. While natural person describes an actual human being, artificial person describes a partnership, corporation, or some other entity that has been provided with legal personhood by statute.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/natural_person

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#22
post #15

Genuine Question, why can't we just charge a federal property tax 3-4x local property taxes for individuals who own >1 property (which would likely be distributed back to the locality, specifics not important), apply the same rules we do for pass-through taxation to mitigate loopholes, and automatically charge this elevated rate for properties owned by non-natural persons? I think this would just price in the externa…

I disagree with your "natural" person qualification. "Non-natural persons" includes anyone with a work visa or green card. It's hard enough for most people to get these, much less become fully naturalized citizens. Plus, the waiting time isn't guaranteed in length: it's variable based on the political climate. It's hard enough for immigrants today. Making the viability of home ownership based on political whims only…

Parent were referring to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_person

It's legalese for a "human being".

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#23
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which is odd because I don't see a lot of downsizing from any boomer I know, the equity is locked away on the home until they sell.

> the equity is locked away on the home until they sell. Some people get reverse mortgages so they can spend some of the equity of the home while they still live in it: https://www.canada.ca/en/financial-consumer-agency/services/...

This is the same tax trick that the obscenely wealthy use with their stock portfolios. It's a "fantastic" way of accessing accrued wealth without paying taxes on it.

I think I would prefer that we investigate this more thoroughly, as well, to reduce some of these tricks that further stratify the haves and the have-nots.

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#24
post #2

We need to stop treating real restate--especially residential real estate--as a mechanism for creating wealth. there are enough homeowners that they vote for politicians and policies that will increase the value of their "investments". All this does is simply steal money from the next generation. Our entire economic system is designed to transfer wealth from the young and poor and the old and wealthy. There is a dist…

The prime minister of Canada literally said housing can't come down because it's the retirement plan of a lot of boomers.

Canada also has a dearth of startups, or new ways of making wealth. The only two ways are resource extraction and squatting on property. If Canadians can become more used to risk and put some of the pension fund into startups and new technology, things could be different.

It is shocking that the godfather of the modern AI boom taught at University of Toronto and yet Canada is not even in the picture when it comes to AI and it won't ever be.

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#25
post #2

We need to stop treating real restate--especially residential real estate--as a mechanism for creating wealth. there are enough homeowners that they vote for politicians and policies that will increase the value of their "investments". All this does is simply steal money from the next generation. Our entire economic system is designed to transfer wealth from the young and poor and the old and wealthy. There is a dist…

I’m sorry to be negative because I agree with the general sentiment that society needs to stop treating “home value go up” as its primary retirement plan, and get rid of our allergy to social housing, but that first Guardian article about banning rental housing is just so bad on so many levels.

He says Britain doesn’t have a housing shortage because the ratio of homes to households hasn’t changed even as prices have gone up—but treating Britain as one big housing market is ridiculous, there have been massive shifts in economic geography over the last 5 decades. There is a housing shortage in the areas with well paying jobs and a housing surplus in the areas with no jobs. People should get to choose to move to a place where they can make a living!

He also says London’s population hasn’t changed in the last 50 years as prices have gone up without new housing being built—uhh no shit! If very little new housing was built in that period, how could the area’s population go up significantly? What happened instead is that, because demand rose and supply didn’t, the population stayed the same and the static supply went to the highest bidder. This is just mind-numbing economic illiteracy. Where does he think a population increase would go in London if London doesn’t increase housing supply?? The static supply is WHY the population didn’t grow! Literally exact same issue as NYC and the expensive parts of California.

He says developers would never build enough housing because it would drive down the price they can command—has this guy ever heard of the tragedy of the commons?? This is literally how markets work when there’s adequate competition. Econ 101. (And I’m not talking about fringy free-market-absolutist econ; Marx understood perfectly well that market competition drives down prices.) For a couple examples, Austin and Minneapolis have generated enough new supply to tank the price of rent. And imagine how ridiculous this argument sounds about anything but housing. “TV companies would never produce more TVs because that would bring down the price they can charge.” Oh wait…

It’s also totally left out (because there is no answer) how overall affordability would get better by getting rid of renting and only having owner-occupied housing. It’s the same amount of demand for the same amount of supply!

Finally, please just don’t take away my ability to rent! At my current place in life I don’t want to lock up a ton of money in real estate and be stuck in one place (much harder to move frequently due to transaction costs). Maybe later in life I’ll buy, but right now I want to rent (and invest my money in other things instead of a home). We need both kinds.

Ughhh. This author’s way of thinking is exactly why many of the most productive and ostensibly progressive cities (London, SF, NYC…) are prohibitively expensive, denying everyone but the rich the ability to live there. It’s easy to understand the right’s desire to send property values to the stratosphere (“fuck the poor, and fuck you too, I got mine”). But the left ties itself in these crazy knots to bring about the same result, hurting the working class we claim to care about, and it’s baffling.

Don’t overthink it, just build a fuckton of housing where there’s the most economic opportunity, both private sector (because central planning is notoriously not the best at creating enough supply) and social housing (because the market never works for literally everyone, and also because why not, more housing is good).

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#26
post #2

We need to stop treating real restate--especially residential real estate--as a mechanism for creating wealth. there are enough homeowners that they vote for politicians and policies that will increase the value of their "investments". All this does is simply steal money from the next generation. Our entire economic system is designed to transfer wealth from the young and poor and the old and wealthy. There is a dist…

Instead of trying to invent new property classes and try untested social theories, let’s do what is known to work:

A. Stop the financialization of homes at the federal level by getting rid of the mortgage tax deduction and the sales tax exclusion on the sale of a personal home.

B. At the local level, reform zoning and remove the draconian restrictions on new home construction, especially of multi-family housing near transit. This will fix the supply issue, the primary driver of high home prices in high demand metros.

Once we remove these artificial government policy distortions that affect both demand and supply in the housing market, an actual free market will arise and drive down prices, especially of older, existing homes.

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#27

Genuine Question, why can't we just charge a federal property tax 3-4x local property taxes for individuals who own >1 property (which would likely be distributed back to the locality, specifics not important), apply the same rules we do for pass-through taxation to mitigate loopholes, and automatically charge this elevated rate for properties owned by non-natural persons? I think this would just price in the externa…

> why can't we just charge a federal property tax 3-4x local property taxes for individuals who own >1 property

Trivially worked around. Use an LLC. Have it bought in a relative’s name. Have it bought in a rando’s name with a bulletproof lease with a $1 rent-to-own option at its termination.

Essentially, the property registry system becomes a farce. (You see this, for example, in India.) Simpler: a straight wealth tax that funds first time homebuyer incentives.

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#28

Genuine Question, why can't we just charge a federal property tax 3-4x local property taxes for individuals who own >1 property (which would likely be distributed back to the locality, specifics not important), apply the same rules we do for pass-through taxation to mitigate loopholes, and automatically charge this elevated rate for properties owned by non-natural persons? I think this would just price in the externa…

“Why can’t we”

I wish the system actually tried to solve problems with well thought out solutions.

To answer your question: politicians don’t want to piss off the wealthy class. Americans at large are skeptical of taxes because they don’t see it being used for anything useful.

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#29
post #9

Genuine Question, why can't we just charge a federal property tax 3-4x local property taxes for individuals who own >1 property (which would likely be distributed back to the locality, specifics not important), apply the same rules we do for pass-through taxation to mitigate loopholes, and automatically charge this elevated rate for properties owned by non-natural persons? I think this would just price in the externa…

Not sure how it's down there, but my understanding is even if we have housing crisis, legislations that would actually bring down the housing prices is also bad for us. RE market is about 10%+ of the entire GDP, so we want individuals to park their money and use it as an investment vehicle as a part of the consumption cycle. Combine it with "i'll just buy it for my child/spouse/mom/dad" and so on, it's not really tha…

> RE market is about 10%+ of the entire GDP

Source? Construction, commissions, renovations and lending maybe. But all that keeps happening in a constant real-price model.

Re: MIT 11.350: Sustainable Real Estate

#30

Genuine Question, why can't we just charge a federal property tax 3-4x local property taxes for individuals who own >1 property (which would likely be distributed back to the locality, specifics not important), apply the same rules we do for pass-through taxation to mitigate loopholes, and automatically charge this elevated rate for properties owned by non-natural persons? I think this would just price in the externa…

There’s nothing inherently wrong with people owning multiple properties. It’s not even a significant driver of the housing shortage. The main driver of the housing shortage is local zoning codes that forbid the construction of new homes, especially multi-family housing.
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