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Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

foreignpolicy.com

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Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#231

Post by nottorp »

lolinder wrote: post #185
standardUser wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple needs to get out of the infrastructure business if they want to play by their own rules. They aren't selling Gameboys and washing machines, they are storing people's private data and selling primary communication devices. That needs to be regulated and the consumer needs to have the final say, not Apple.

> they are storing people's private data and selling primary communication devices. To be clear, I think privacy laws like GDPR absolutely have a place for consumer protection. I just don't think the DMA does. Watching how the DMA applies to Apple, it feels far less about consumer protection than it does about businesses, and that's what makes me uncomfortable. The EU is in this case listening to complaints from a bu…

> The Apple App Store protects users from myriad abuses by myriad bad companies.

Does it? Are the $50/month subscription flashlight apps gone?

This is just a form of 'think of the children'. Think of all those evil hackers waiting around the corner for the poor unsuspecting iPhone users.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#232

Post by pizlonator »

kranke155 wrote: post #71
Vinnl wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems to hinge on extrapolating from Apple not doing AI in the EU that NVidia might leave the market, harming Mistral.

Why would Nvidia leave the market?

CUDA being viewed as anticompetitive by French regulators (source: the article).

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#233

Post by sensanaty »

Always hilarious reading big tech propaganda. They're trying oh so hard to convince people that, no, us harvesting every single iota of information and selling it to data brokers is progress, actually!!!

The best part, for me, is while they flail and scream about the big bad EU, Japan and India are following suit with similar laws and regulations. It's only a matter of time until more and more countries start adopting these laws, and the tears from the techbros is going to be delicious.

The website the "article" (aka paid propaganda piece) is hosted on has over 700 partners that they'd like me to consent to having my data shared with. It also completely shits itself thanks to uBlock, meaning it's made so terribly that blocking the privacy-invasive trackers they have breaks the whole site.

If this is their idea of innovation, they can keep it and shove it where the sun don't shine.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#234

Post by Someone »

buzzert wrote: post #105
KaiserPro wrote: post #88

A company that provides a phone service (mobile or other) has to conform to a large amount of regulatory red tape. Why? because either a company before tried to monopolise the entire country, or they killed someone. Now, large tech companies haven't wholesale killed people (unlike say tobacco, or talc powder, 3M and half of their solvents, weed killer, most car makers, etc etc) but they have been trying desperately t…

> They've also been trying to extract as much personal info as possible for profit. Because regulators in the USA are hamstrung, they are used to being able to basically doing stuff that would be illegal if it were in physical stores/pre-existing industries. Did you actually read the article? I don't know how you square this kobayashi maru situation, unless you think Meta is outright lying about it: > Europe recently…

> They’re demanding that Meta provide free full services without personalized ads or a monthly fee for users

Where are they demanding that? Reading https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/IP_24_..., their complaints seem to be that Facebook

- cannot call the ‘with adverts’ version ‘free’

- makes it too difficult for consumers to find out what exactly they give to facebook in exchange for this ‘free’ service

- is not clear enough about the fact that paying will not remove all ads

- forces existing users to choose between paid and ‘free’ versions before they can use the service again.

Nowhere do they say on that page that Meta "provide free full services without personalized ads or a monthly fee for users”. Am I reading the wrong page?

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#235

Post by mullingitover »

autoexec wrote: post #180

The EU is free to pass laws preventing gatekeepers and insisting on interoperability requirements and Apple is free to refuse to do that and not offer their non-competitive gatekeeping products in the EU. There's zero reason to think that this will mean the EU won't have a tech market. It just won't have one that includes Apple products which refuse to follow the law. Seems like a massive win for the EU, and because…

> Apple is free to refuse to do that and not offer their non-competitive gatekeeping products in the EU.

Currently Apple has been complying with the letter of EU law (opening their devices to alternative app stores, etc) but not the spirit of the law (leaving the EU market).

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#236

Post by ambicapter »

fruit2020 wrote: post #178
baq wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought it’s idiotic until the first time I sent something back for a refund.

And how many times did you do that :))

The great thing about them selling you something made to be as crappy as you will stand, is that then you'll then have to refund it all the time, making their re-targeting ads even more "effective" :)) What a virtuous cycle!

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#237

Post by autoexec »

finolex1 wrote: post #164
thrance wrote: post #77

I wish targeted advertising was made completely illegal here, I am sure our society would greatly benefit from that.

Why would it benefit society to get less targeted ads as opposed to more targeted ones?

> Why would it benefit society to get less targeted ads as opposed to more targeted ones?

Because more targeted ads require a dangerous and abusive system of pervasive surveillance while less targeted ads can still be targeted without hurting as many people in the process.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#238

Post by austhrow743 »

finolex1 wrote: post #164
thrance wrote: post #77

I wish targeted advertising was made completely illegal here, I am sure our society would greatly benefit from that.

Why would it benefit society to get less targeted ads as opposed to more targeted ones?

Ads would be less effective at convincing people to be unhappy.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#239

Post by monksy »

pembrook wrote: post #124
KaiserPro wrote: post #88

A company that provides a phone service (mobile or other) has to conform to a large amount of regulatory red tape. Why? because either a company before tried to monopolise the entire country, or they killed someone. Now, large tech companies haven't wholesale killed people (unlike say tobacco, or talc powder, 3M and half of their solvents, weed killer, most car makers, etc etc) but they have been trying desperately t…

Nobody is against regulation that disfavors large incumbents to support competition instead. You'll struggle to find people who are against the Digital Markets Act for this reason. It literally only targets the potential monopolists. However, virtually every other piece of regulation does the opposite. Regulation usually gets trotted out after the downside of doing [new innovation] is experienced. This always happens…

It's not that most people hate risk. It's that individuals whom are harmed by sociopathic individuals that exploit methodologies, techniques, and products to enrich, steal, and harm the population. (When I say that I mean financially, emotionally, socially, physically, etc). To add further insult to injury, defending ones self against these individuals is disproportionately impossible.

Socially: Creating and cultivating a culture that screws up dating.

Emotionally: Filter bubbles, and data analyitics to push proganda and motivate people in directions (cambridge). Additionally subjecting people to material to manipulate.

Stealing: Scooter companies are actively stealing the public space to operate their business (sidewalks), endorsing their users to run over people on the sidewalk (also making it difficult to identify the individual), etc.

Privacy wise: Companies are forcing you to give up your private info to live. (Retail tracking to individuals.. even accross multiple companies [see "The Retail Equation"])

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#240

Post by sangnoir »

lolinder wrote: post #160
fl0id wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

this argument doesn't work, because you could always argue that the consumer chose this product, and thus its features and practices should be allowed. Apple had it coming for a long time already, one way or another. And Microsoft also will again the way they are going.

Yeah, sure, you could always argue that about anything, but that's not a refutation of this particular argument in this particular situation. Apple's walled garden produces a lot of real benefits for its customers that are part of what make it successful, and dismantling their walled garden is going to harm consumers. I would never pick an Apple device for myself. I would also never recommend an Android phone to my m…

> Apple's walled garden produces a lot of real benefits for its customers that are part of what make it successful, and dismantling their walled garden is going to harm consumers.

What are those benefits, and why would they evaporate if Apple adds an "Install from other sources" toggle? If you want to exclusively benefit from Apple's discernment, keep that toggle off and stay in the walled garden.If the benefits are so great, then surely everyone will choose to stay in the walled garden.

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