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Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

foreignpolicy.com

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Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The real fundamental issue is VCs, which as you pointed out, are far more adventurous in America.

Unfortunately true, but one can also think that it’s a consequence and not the root cause. Why VC should invest if the environment isn’t supportive? A vicious circle :)

to give a different perspective,

why are VC's somehow the cause of "tech industry"? this seems like a very US perspective on tech in general.

Also, VC's in the US have another large advantage. Very, very cheap money because the status of the US dollar as a reserve currency compared to the euro and other currencies.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#122
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. Unless I misunderstood your point it sounds like, what you guys have right now is good for people and their lives. Isn't that the entire point of life? I can see why general population might support it, while us techies would be pushing for deregulation and less of work-life balance. So my understanding of these articles is "it might be bad in a long term!", but Europe is still big enough market for all…

> what you guys have right now is good for people and their lives Let's see how long it lasts, Europe's economy is terrible and their people are significantly poorer. I don't think their current welfare state is sustainable without tax revenue from large businesses. Eventually every European citizen will be a waiter, hotel staff, or a tour guide.

You have a weird definition of “terrible”. How much EU taxes are being paid by Apple, Meta, Google, etc?

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#123
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies circumvent real choice all the time. Regulations prevent them from doing so. There's no equivalency here. EU has repeatedly made legislation that does something or anything to counteract the power these tech companies have over the lives of billions. The EU has an interest in serving the needs of EU citizens. Tech companies do not. Tech companies only care about their bottom line, regardless of the human or…

Then it sounds like what you’re saying is there’s a financial market for users like you and I who would rather pay a subscription fee than our data be sold? Or an ad supported tier? The problem with your argument is you’re removing any revenue source the company has. If you won’t pay a subscription, and you block all the ads, and they can’t sell data, how do they make money? Money is required to run the service, whet…

Protection of the water we drink is a legal right. Which is why companies cannot dump waste into the river, no matter what financial impacts it has on them.

Protection of user data is a legal right, or increasingly recognized to be. Companies have no right to sell it, or misuse it, no matter what financial impacts it has on them.

Rights cannot be contracted away or sold. They are rights.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#124

A company that provides a phone service (mobile or other) has to conform to a large amount of regulatory red tape. Why? because either a company before tried to monopolise the entire country, or they killed someone. Now, large tech companies haven't wholesale killed people (unlike say tobacco, or talc powder, 3M and half of their solvents, weed killer, most car makers, etc etc) but they have been trying desperately t…

Nobody is against regulation that disfavors large incumbents to support competition instead.

You'll struggle to find people who are against the Digital Markets Act for this reason. It literally only targets the potential monopolists.

However, virtually every other piece of regulation does the opposite.

Regulation usually gets trotted out after the downside of doing [new innovation] is experienced. This always happens, because doing something new always involves unknown risk. Most people aren't entrepreneurs and hate risk, so they pass regulation, and the market gets locked down so nothing new happens again. Incumbents and their army of lawyers can easily comply or are grandfathered in, and challengers are permanently disadvantaged. That market is officially dead until the next fundamental leap forward in technology.

What's different now though, is the hysteria over AI is leading regulators to pass this incumbent-cementing regulation before we've even had a chance to experience both the upside and downside, so the innovation never happens at all.

Combine this with a rapidly aging demography in Europe, and I only see this trend increasing. If there's one thing old people hate, it's risk and doing new things. Meanwhile, those same old folks are expecting massive payouts (social benefits) via taxation of the same private sector they're currently kneecapping with red tape. While ironic, those two trends converging aren't great for Europe.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#125
post #19

Because the EU values their citizens privacy tech may leave. Personally I could live with that if that is the result of my privacy being protected.

If the EU cares about its citizen's privacy why does it do everything in its power to spy on its own citizens?

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#126
post #19

Because the EU values their citizens privacy tech may leave. Personally I could live with that if that is the result of my privacy being protected.

It's socialism versus capitalism at its finest. The problem is that socialism risks regulating big tech out of existence. Is that an issue? Absolutely. By stifling big tech, Europe becomes heavily dependent on the US, which ultimately hurts our quality of life. As an entrepreneur living in Europe, the best thing you can do is move to the US.

i don't think you know what socialism means if this is your interpretation.

Lets not forget that half of the EU actually lived under a quasi socialist regime not that long ago...

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They've also been trying to extract as much personal info as possible for profit. Because regulators in the USA are hamstrung, they are used to being able to basically doing stuff that would be illegal if it were in physical stores/pre-existing industries. Did you actually read the article? I don't know how you square this kobayashi maru situation, unless you think Meta is outright lying about it: > Europe recently…

> In a very real sense, the EU has ruled that Meta’s core business model is illegal. Is this actually bad?

No, but the EU and the citizens thereof should then accept that Meta or other similar companies in similar situations can't operate within the EU.

The EU regulators and select HN users might be okay with that, but EU citizens on average probably won't be.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#128
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spotify benefitted from starting in the EU.

I don't agree with the exaggeration in the parent comment, but your one counter-example pivoted their workforce expansion to the US after openly criticizing Sweden's business environment. They took issue with the shortage of employee housing due to over-regulated planning restrictions, unfavorable taxation of stock options, and a lack of programming and development education. Those issues (less so education) are appl…

Most devs in Sweden would be very happy to get US wages so this feels pretty much like bullshit.

Also, Spotify could open offices in other places in Sweden (or Europe) if they want to be in places with lower CoL than Stockholm.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m living in Europe, I'm deeply disappointed by the current situation. The problems run much deeper than just regulations; they extend far beyond politics. 1. VCs outright avoid investing in deep tech, with only rare exceptions. 2. Founders overwhelmingly choose to build small, sustainable companies, steering clear of big tech. 3. Employees consistently prefer consulting jobs and value vacation days over equity. 4.…

The real fundamental issue is VCs, which as you pointed out, are far more adventurous in America.

On the contrary, I see the VC influence on American tech has been incredibly destructive. No one builds companies or products or services to last. Everyone is only in it for the quick buck. Basically every service provided by big tech has turned into a chase to cover it with ads and seek as much rent as possible while never actually improving anything. The state of software has gone downhill precipitously in the past decade and it’s only getting worse as VCs gain more and more control over the entire economy from housing to education to financial services to insurance.

Re: Europe is in danger of regulating its tech market out of existence

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> what you guys have right now is good for people and their lives Let's see how long it lasts, Europe's economy is terrible and their people are significantly poorer. I don't think their current welfare state is sustainable without tax revenue from large businesses. Eventually every European citizen will be a waiter, hotel staff, or a tour guide.

how is europe's economy terrible? by what metric? considering that the EU still has a very large part of the global economy, especially compared to its population and size. Also, the tech industry is not the only part of the economy. large parts of the EU are absolutely massive in terms of industrial machinery and scientific companies. People on HN always seem to forget that a lot of money can be made by making somet…

Maybe terrible is too strong but the trajectory is not great: https://www.euronews.com/business/2024/07/25/germanys-busine...?
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