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The Economic News Isn't All Bleak

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Re: The Economic News Isn't All Bleak

#21
post #20

I've seen maybe half a dozen articles that say "everyone agrees that this might be the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression" (so presumably there are far, far more than that, because I don't spend a lot of time reading that sort of article). I haven't yet seen one that acknowledges the possibility that it might be worse than the Great Depression. That seems to me to be obviously wrong. If what we're in…

25% unemployment seems very unlikely, ditto for bread lines and hoovervilles.

Re: The Economic News Isn't All Bleak

#22
post #6
post #2

No comment on whether the future is bleak or not. But extending beyond economics, also consider the US political commentary of the past year and a half. It was, not to put too fine a point on it, shit . Take the conventional wisdom for any day of your choice four weeks before the election to a year before the election, then come back to it two months later. Uniformly, the boldly-made predictions and much-blabbered co…

Great post. One thing I found interesting about this piece was the blatant revisionism on display in the second paragraph of the article: "less than two years ago, conventional wisdom dictated that the housing bubble would be painful but that global economic growth would remain stable." Forgive me, Mr. Writer, but my recollection is that less than two years ago, few people in the mainstream were acknowledging that a…

A bubble is indistinguishable from a pyramid scheme legally run amok for the appearance of economic growth. Which is why I don't care for the naysayers opinions because they are far less useful than knowing a few average Joes who have the curiosity of cucumbers when it comes to economics, politics, etc. Once your average Joe catches onto the long tail of the curve, you know a bubble has run its course.

The next bubble will likely be the green one. It's large, necessary, and completely possible to go overboard regardless of what you'll hear every pundit saying for the next 10 years.

Re: The Economic News Isn't All Bleak

#23
post #20

I've seen maybe half a dozen articles that say "everyone agrees that this might be the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression" (so presumably there are far, far more than that, because I don't spend a lot of time reading that sort of article). I haven't yet seen one that acknowledges the possibility that it might be worse than the Great Depression. That seems to me to be obviously wrong. If what we're in…

i believe not only will this be worse than the depression for the US, it will indeed do in the US entirely. a nation's most important piece of paper is not its constitution (you can burn and rewrite one of those anytime you want one), it is its currency. you can only burn your currency once.

there is a very strong historical parallel - the french revolution. no matter what interpretation of this event you find in literature, they will all point to excess debt as one of the key, if not the key motivation for the revolution. weimar germany is another scenario where excess currency abuse literally did in the nation, and incidentally ushered in nazism.

there is no way the US can now get out of debt or even hope to slow down deficits. the rate of growth of the debt is astounding. one must wonder where the death bond lies...that dollar of debt that we issue that is rejected by all buyers and signals the end of the US. once the US dollar is rejected by all buyers, the US govt immediately ceases to exist by definition. police, army, firefighters...none of their paychecks have value anymore, so none of them will report for work.

how much is too much? our debt is around twelve trillion now, my guess is that at around twenty five trillion, its game over. we will reach that point by 2018 at the latest. the US is gone by 2020 at the latest. if any political structure survives, it will be helmed by an american stalin who will gorge on the nation and utterly obliterate it.

it will take the world one hundred years to reconstruct after the obliteration of the USD-backed fiat-debt financial system. pax romana was nothing more than a promise and a hope...once it went away the west lost centuries. the USD is no more than the pax romana of our era...a idea backed only by faith, not values

Re: The Economic News Isn't All Bleak

#24
post #20

I've seen maybe half a dozen articles that say "everyone agrees that this might be the worst economic downturn since the Great Depression" (so presumably there are far, far more than that, because I don't spend a lot of time reading that sort of article). I haven't yet seen one that acknowledges the possibility that it might be worse than the Great Depression. That seems to me to be obviously wrong. If what we're in…

i believe not only will this be worse than the depression for the US, it will indeed do in the US entirely. a nation's most important piece of paper is not its constitution (you can burn and rewrite one of those anytime you want one), it is its currency . you can only burn your currency once. there is a very strong historical parallel - the french revolution. no matter what interpretation of this event you find in li…

You point out the parallel with Germany -- perhaps it's worth also pointing out that despite losing a major war, having its currency totally wrecked, falling into deranged totalitarianism, and losing another major war, Germany is still around and not doing too badly. So "do in entirely" and "utterly obliterate" seem a bit too strong to me. For that matter, the French Revolution doesn't seem to have destroyed France either. I think the majority opinion is that it was an improvement overall.

(Of course, if anything like the same thing happens to the US as happened to Germany then that would be very, very, very bad. I just think you're exaggerating.)

Re: The Economic News Isn't All Bleak

#25
post #17
post #2

No comment on whether the future is bleak or not. But extending beyond economics, also consider the US political commentary of the past year and a half. It was, not to put too fine a point on it, shit . Take the conventional wisdom for any day of your choice four weeks before the election to a year before the election, then come back to it two months later. Uniformly, the boldly-made predictions and much-blabbered co…

Do you realize that by suggesting to "keep your savings up" you are predicting stable purchasing power of US dollar? It's entirely possible for someone to play it safe, stick to cash savings and then get burned if/when dollar is devalued by 75% simialr to Argentina 2001, Russia 1998 or Iceland 2008.

If massive inflation occurs, you're pretty much screwed no matter what. It is not currently possible to live fully, truly off the grid in the manner in which anybody posting to Hacker News is accustomed. Planning for events that you can do nothing about is a waste of time; the fact that that is unfortunate changes nothing.

(Which is not to say some reasonable preparation for emergencies is a bad idea. I'm just saying that once you're proposing massive inflation, it's not like having a huge stash of gold in your basement is going to save you, or there's anything else you can hoard that can't be taken from you by force by a rampaging mob.)

Re: The Economic News Isn't All Bleak

#26
post #25
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you realize that by suggesting to "keep your savings up" you are predicting stable purchasing power of US dollar? It's entirely possible for someone to play it safe, stick to cash savings and then get burned if/when dollar is devalued by 75% simialr to Argentina 2001, Russia 1998 or Iceland 2008.

If massive inflation occurs, you're pretty much screwed no matter what. It is not currently possible to live fully, truly off the grid in the manner in which anybody posting to Hacker News is accustomed. Planning for events that you can do nothing about is a waste of time; the fact that that is unfortunate changes nothing. (Which is not to say some reasonable preparation for emergencies is a bad idea. I'm just saying…

>(Which is not to say some reasonable preparation for emergencies is a bad idea. I'm just saying that once you're proposing massive inflation, it's not like having a huge stash of gold in your basement is going to save you, or there's anything else you can hoard that can't be taken from you by force by a rampaging mob.)

Citation needed. According to FerFAL, who actually lived through the 2001 Argentinian peso devaluation, a large stash of gold will save you because there won't be a rampaging mob robbing everyone, especially not if you own a gun.

http://ferfal.blogspot.com/

Ten kilos of gold should be enough to get you anywhere on the planet; after all, it should be worth 300,000 current dollars or so. The only scenario where that would be useless is a nuclear holocaust.

Re: The Economic News Isn't All Bleak

#27
post #6
post #2

No comment on whether the future is bleak or not. But extending beyond economics, also consider the US political commentary of the past year and a half. It was, not to put too fine a point on it, shit . Take the conventional wisdom for any day of your choice four weeks before the election to a year before the election, then come back to it two months later. Uniformly, the boldly-made predictions and much-blabbered co…

Great post. One thing I found interesting about this piece was the blatant revisionism on display in the second paragraph of the article: "less than two years ago, conventional wisdom dictated that the housing bubble would be painful but that global economic growth would remain stable." Forgive me, Mr. Writer, but my recollection is that less than two years ago, few people in the mainstream were acknowledging that a…

If I remember correctly, two years ago people were taking about a soft landing.

Re: The Economic News Isn't All Bleak

#28
post #25
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you realize that by suggesting to "keep your savings up" you are predicting stable purchasing power of US dollar? It's entirely possible for someone to play it safe, stick to cash savings and then get burned if/when dollar is devalued by 75% simialr to Argentina 2001, Russia 1998 or Iceland 2008.

If massive inflation occurs, you're pretty much screwed no matter what. It is not currently possible to live fully, truly off the grid in the manner in which anybody posting to Hacker News is accustomed. Planning for events that you can do nothing about is a waste of time; the fact that that is unfortunate changes nothing. (Which is not to say some reasonable preparation for emergencies is a bad idea. I'm just saying…

I am amazed at the hatred for gold among some HN'ers.

This is the second thread I have seen where gold was mentioned, and the second time I have seen a vitriolic response about gold.

Gold will always be valuable and it will always be part of a sane person's plan for dealing with a "things are going to crap" scenario. Along with some form of food storage to deal with logistic interrruptions and some form of personal defense (mace, pepper spray, knives, guns, etc.)

Re: The Economic News Isn't All Bleak

#29
post #25
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you realize that by suggesting to "keep your savings up" you are predicting stable purchasing power of US dollar? It's entirely possible for someone to play it safe, stick to cash savings and then get burned if/when dollar is devalued by 75% simialr to Argentina 2001, Russia 1998 or Iceland 2008.

If massive inflation occurs, you're pretty much screwed no matter what. It is not currently possible to live fully, truly off the grid in the manner in which anybody posting to Hacker News is accustomed. Planning for events that you can do nothing about is a waste of time; the fact that that is unfortunate changes nothing. (Which is not to say some reasonable preparation for emergencies is a bad idea. I'm just saying…

I used to keep a portion of my savings in foreign currency ETFs, gold ETFs, and foreign stocks because I was concerned about devaluation of the dollar. You're gambling if you do this, of course, because the dollar can go up, too. However, it does hedge your risk somewhat compared to keeping all of your savings in assets denominated by a single currency.

Re: The Economic News Isn't All Bleak

#30
post #2

No comment on whether the future is bleak or not. But extending beyond economics, also consider the US political commentary of the past year and a half. It was, not to put too fine a point on it, shit . Take the conventional wisdom for any day of your choice four weeks before the election to a year before the election, then come back to it two months later. Uniformly, the boldly-made predictions and much-blabbered co…

The gloom and doom shouldn't depress you unless you derive all your happiness from wealth. Believe it or not, there were happy people living through the Great Deppression, both rich and poor prior.

Material comfort and stability is an important contributor to happiness. Go to a middle class gathering place, like a Chipotle restaurant in a business district at lunch, and then go to an unemployment office. See which population is happier.
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