Live data from Hacker News

A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

theconversation.com

41–50 of 180 posts

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#41
post #4

The decaf process seems expensive so you might expect the end result to cost more, but it never does. Which means either the producers are making less profit on decaf, or they are using lower quality beans. If the latter is true, which seems more likely, that might explain why decaf sometimes tastes less good, separately from the effect of the process itself on taste.

The same decaf coffee is more expensive. The producers decaffeinate their lesser coffees. But you've hit on why the "sugar-cane method" i.e. the solvent based approach produces better coffee. It's possible for it to be done at origin and so the actual coffee producers can choose what coffee to decaffeinate and can absorb some of the additional costs in the "processing" stage while using higher quality coffee in the process.

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#42
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that when you buy decaf beans from a roaster they don't aren't the ones decaffeinating the coffee beans. I think roasters have a lot less choice when buying decaffeinated beans so I bet your theory is correct.

There are two main decaf plants, one in Vancouver and one in Mexico. The Mexican one is supposedly superior in taste, but the majority is processed through Vancouver with the Swiss Water plant. https://www.swisswater.com/blogs/sw/swiss-waters-new-decaffe...

Is this for North America or worldwide?

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#43

I'd like to talk a bit more about the cheapest and most common process here. They state that ethyl acetate is below the FDA limits and therefore safe. For a start ethyl acetate is still pretty bad but it's not the cheapest. Another common solvent not mentioned here is Dichloromethane. It's a pretty clear cancer causing agent https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/pr8k9v/til_s... You know what else is a solve…

> You know what else is a solvent for decaffeinating coffee? Benzene.

Please don't spread misinformation. Benzene was the original solvent used 120 years ago in Germany when decaf was first invented. It did not last long as the dangers of benzine became apparent. There have been several generations of solvents used in the over one century since then and benzine has not been a part of the decaf world in a very long time.

> Don't drink decaf.

There is no reason not to drink decaf and recent studies have found it to be just as beneficial as normal coffee for antioxidant properties. Coffee in moderation is good for you, caffeine or not.

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#44
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what your standards are, but I'm not sure if this is even possible. I drink Stumptown which I grind at home for my espresso machine -- their caffeinated Hair Bender blend in the morning, and then in the afternoon I'll often have their decaf Trapper Creek (Swiss water process) on the days I don't need an extra jolt. It tastes perfectly great to me. Maybe my palette isn't refined enough. But decaffeination…

The gold standard for this in sensory analysis is a triangle test — which I happen to have done with coffee from Ninth St Espresso, who sells a regular and substantial identical decaf. We brewed 3 identical batches (where 2 were the same beans and the 3rd was the other bean). In an office with ~12 tasters, the ability to pick out the “different” beans was 33%… ie random chance. If the above sounds confusing, consider…

Decaf is simple to pick out by a person who is competent at tasting coffee. As easy as your red/white wine visual test. People in general are very bad at tasting and especially thinking and communicating about tasting. Plus also people may not know what decaf coffee tastes like or may have never thought about it before.

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#45
I love decaf but the main problem is how fragile the stability of the beans are. They go bad quickly. To get the same cup of decaf coffee every day requires more work if you are grinding your own and making espresso. Still, I love them.

Personally, I've found the CO2 method to have a lot more flavor than the Swiss Water. I also found the CO2 beans don't deteriorate as quickly as the Swiss Water beans.

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#46
post #4

The decaf process seems expensive so you might expect the end result to cost more, but it never does. Which means either the producers are making less profit on decaf, or they are using lower quality beans. If the latter is true, which seems more likely, that might explain why decaf sometimes tastes less good, separately from the effect of the process itself on taste.

CO2 can be reused so it's not that expensive, and the caffeine that gets extracted is sold separately, so it's possible decaffeinated coffee could have more profit that caffeinated.

After all, we don't really make synthetic caffeine, we extract it from tea and coffee and add it to a lot of things.

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#47
post #45

I love decaf but the main problem is how fragile the stability of the beans are. They go bad quickly. To get the same cup of decaf coffee every day requires more work if you are grinding your own and making espresso. Still, I love them. Personally, I've found the CO2 method to have a lot more flavor than the Swiss Water. I also found the CO2 beans don't deteriorate as quickly as the Swiss Water beans.

How quickly is quickly?

I literally yesterday bought my first bag of decaf and mixed them with my regular beans. I need to sleep more, and reducing caffeine intake is the low hanging fruit.

Decades of habits around buying and using normal beans are about to be replaced, and this comment is already helpful.

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#49
post #47
post #45

I love decaf but the main problem is how fragile the stability of the beans are. They go bad quickly. To get the same cup of decaf coffee every day requires more work if you are grinding your own and making espresso. Still, I love them. Personally, I've found the CO2 method to have a lot more flavor than the Swiss Water. I also found the CO2 beans don't deteriorate as quickly as the Swiss Water beans.

How quickly is quickly? I literally yesterday bought my first bag of decaf and mixed them with my regular beans. I need to sleep more, and reducing caffeine intake is the low hanging fruit. Decades of habits around buying and using normal beans are about to be replaced, and this comment is already helpful.

I think it depends how you brew it. Filter, for example, is a lot more forgiving on flavor than espresso. My decaf beans start to go bad for espresso after a few days of buying them, but for filter they will last much longer. One recommendation by coffee aficionados is to freeze your decaf beans as soon as you get them and then grind them frozen. I haven't tried that yet, I just buy in small batches so they are usually rather fresh.

Mixing half decaf with regular beans is a great idea, I've been doing that for years. The mix of flavors is good too, if you are brewing filter. You can get away with a lot more when you do filter.

Re: A chemist explains the chemistry behind decaf coffee

#50
post #45

I love decaf but the main problem is how fragile the stability of the beans are. They go bad quickly. To get the same cup of decaf coffee every day requires more work if you are grinding your own and making espresso. Still, I love them. Personally, I've found the CO2 method to have a lot more flavor than the Swiss Water. I also found the CO2 beans don't deteriorate as quickly as the Swiss Water beans.

I hunted around for good decaf espresso beans for a couple years and then someone recommended local own-brand supermarket beans, 9.50e/kg and I've had some better tasting extractions than a lot of artisan expensive regular beans I've bought. No roast date, so who knows how old, but a good consistent cup until bag empty.

What I also then noticed was that a lot of the coffee houses here use an inferior grinder for their decaf, smaller burrs, and/or the older hopper based grinder vs on-demand for their regular beans. No wonder it gets a bad rep.

Anyway I was quite amazed to suddenly find myself enjoying decaf so much.

Post reply on HN