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CrowdStrike will be liable for damages in France, based on the OVH precedent

thehftguy.com

51–60 of 285 posts

Re: CrowdStrike will be liable for damages in France, based on the OVH precedent

#51

Surely, there must be a gigantic number of claimants already taking to their lawyers about how to get compensation? Not just in France but across the planet? I wonder how this kind of thing is organised, since there's all these jurisdictions.

"I wonder how this kind of thing is organised, since there's all these jurisdictions."

In theory simple. Crowdstrike is doing buisness in state X, so compensation claims will be settled in court in state X. So lots of courts and lawers all around the world, will be quite busy for some time with the case.

Re: CrowdStrike will be liable for damages in France, based on the OVH precedent

#52

Awesome. Falcon has been widely known (for years) as an utter piece of shit (code wise). Maybe now ClownStrike will start testing it properly, hopefully thereby fixing the stability and other issues.

Likely not by the people who make the decisions to purchase this. They're usually hearing more from the marketing/sales people than from those actually having to deal with this. Personally, I don't expect this to make much of a difference, if any.

> Personally, I don't expect this to make much of a difference, if any.

While you're probably right, I'm hoping ClownStrike's court results so absolutely dwarf their insurance coverage that it's nearly company ending.

ie something to actually get them to improve things, not just generate empty PR platitudes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SiL2AjOtjZI

Re: CrowdStrike will be liable for damages in France, based on the OVH precedent

#53

Can someone explain to me why the protections that Falcon provides, are not provided by the OS itself? I am not completely naive, I've secured quite a few critical Linux servers, but with Windows it seems that there do not exist the same clear roles of security. Contrast with Red Hat or even Canonical, where is feels like I'm (correctly) fighting the security of the systems to get them into a state where my users can…

How do you actively detect a malware agent running in user space using stealth or a kernel. Authors of such are fully aware of Linux hardening like SELinux / AppArmor and work around it.

If you have good examples, I'd love to see it, A writeup even more so on the techniques they used. My findings so far in the wild (and on my honeypot) is really amateur level garbage.

I spent a weekend and abused a c&c infrastructure server to fix the clients and remove the flaw and malware. I see very little sophistication there.

Re: CrowdStrike will be liable for damages in France, based on the OVH precedent

#54
post #40

Can someone explain to me why the protections that Falcon provides, are not provided by the OS itself? I am not completely naive, I've secured quite a few critical Linux servers, but with Windows it seems that there do not exist the same clear roles of security. Contrast with Red Hat or even Canonical, where is feels like I'm (correctly) fighting the security of the systems to get them into a state where my users can…

Windows does have Defender, which does some amount of tracking signatures and heuristics of various types of malware. It has not, however, proved enough to fend off different real world problems like ransomware. Hence, the market for 3rd party solutions that are more aggressive. And to keep up with real world threats, they have to update often. And have to run at high privilege levels. So now you have the situation w…

But randsomware is mostly targeted to servers, many of the devices affected were clients

Re: CrowdStrike will be liable for damages in France, based on the OVH precedent

#55

Holy shit (hits the fan). For sure CrowdStrike will be held accountable in several countries, but I believe that some conclusions need to be drawn also from a customer/user perspective. - Is it reasonable to grant such privilege access to a piece of software that ultimately is a black box ? - Is it reasonable to put a Microsoft / Commercial / Closed source OS in critical infrastructure ? If not considered as critical…

Only your third point makes any sense. For the other two, obviously the answer is yes, that's entirely reasonable. Businesses and government organizations use plenty of commercial tools that they have no way of designing or understanding on their own. Software is no different from hardware from this point of view.

A hospital doesn't have, and couldn't use even if it did, the blueprints for an MRI machine or an old-fashioned iron lung. And those machines are built by commercial companies and contain plenty of trade secrets.

If anything, using open-source software that you maintain yourself in critical infrastructure is the more bizarre practice from a historical or industry-level perspective. Even in software, things like Solaris, IBM OSs etc. are much more common than OSS. And even when using FOSS, a commercial distribution like RHEL is far more common than using your own Linux.

Re: CrowdStrike will be liable for damages in France, based on the OVH precedent

#56

Can someone explain to me why the protections that Falcon provides, are not provided by the OS itself? I am not completely naive, I've secured quite a few critical Linux servers, but with Windows it seems that there do not exist the same clear roles of security. Contrast with Red Hat or even Canonical, where is feels like I'm (correctly) fighting the security of the systems to get them into a state where my users can…

How do you actively detect a malware agent running in user space using stealth or a kernel. Authors of such are fully aware of Linux hardening like SELinux / AppArmor and work around it.

[deleted]

Re: CrowdStrike will be liable for damages in France, based on the OVH precedent

#58
post #23

The 10$ gift cards were just hilarious. How could they possibly expect anyone to take them seriously?

Not a lawyer, but the cynic in me assumes that it is legal bait: if someone at the company cashed the $10 gift card one could argue that compensation for damages has been accepted and no further liability applies. At least legally speaking, obviously this is completely morally bankrupt.

I hope that happens to every company that simply updates terms of service by sending email...

Re: CrowdStrike will be liable for damages in France, based on the OVH precedent

#59

Can someone explain to me why the protections that Falcon provides, are not provided by the OS itself? I am not completely naive, I've secured quite a few critical Linux servers, but with Windows it seems that there do not exist the same clear roles of security. Contrast with Red Hat or even Canonical, where is feels like I'm (correctly) fighting the security of the systems to get them into a state where my users can…

Linux can't be secured out of the box to do anything that Falcon does. If you use AuditD, eBPF and things like GRSecurity patches you might get into a good state, but it's still not the same thing at all. it might be secure depending on your linuxfoo, but it's not the same thing as running EDR which will help correlate system behavior across different systems etc. and look with much more depth into process behaviors and system interactions.

Also, you don't want operating systems to provide this actual EDR program. They need to provide the facilities for EDR vendors / creators to tap into and do their work properly. You don't want a butcher to rate their own meat... you want a third-party to do this. As Example: MS Defender is totally rubbish (general sentiment for a lot of people in security, hence they run falcon or cortex XDR etc.) at defending Windows.... and it's by Microsoft. They should focus on building an auditable OS and let auditors do the auditing...

The best thing imho is a tool like CSF but integrated with network appliances (which CS doesn't do i think), which is where the strength of such tooling really comes together, correlating network data / behaviors to endpoint behaviours and having a full 'causality chain' of processes / systems and network traffic invovled in an attack.

And you are right on the balance of security being dramatic. using crypto is still hard as ever, and allowing external parties to interact with your users is just impossible to do right (let alone have users in the right awareness mode). This last is a problem of security industry imho, making tools so difficult.

Someday maybe rather than EDR tools and firewalls, cybersecurity companies will deliver 'secure business services' which are easy to use, userfriendly services that are secure by default. - maybe in like the year 3042.

Re: CrowdStrike will be liable for damages in France, based on the OVH precedent

#60
post #40

Can someone explain to me why the protections that Falcon provides, are not provided by the OS itself? I am not completely naive, I've secured quite a few critical Linux servers, but with Windows it seems that there do not exist the same clear roles of security. Contrast with Red Hat or even Canonical, where is feels like I'm (correctly) fighting the security of the systems to get them into a state where my users can…

Windows does have Defender, which does some amount of tracking signatures and heuristics of various types of malware. It has not, however, proved enough to fend off different real world problems like ransomware. Hence, the market for 3rd party solutions that are more aggressive. And to keep up with real world threats, they have to update often. And have to run at high privilege levels. So now you have the situation w…

Very much every 3rd party anti-virus software I tried (and paid for) caused data loss or other problems (a few catastrophic) in the long run. One product didn't even stop a virus getting in.

Since then I just use Defender and never had any trouble or a virus or ransomware. Only issue is that sometimes the antimalware service takes a lot of CPU.

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