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Large Enough

mistral.ai

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Re: Large Enough

#301
post #275

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Testing models on their tokenization has always struck me as kinda odd. Like, that has nothing to do with their intelligence.

Call me when models understand when to convert the token into actual letters and count them. Can’t claim they’re more than word calculators before that.

Is anyone in the know, aside from mainstream media (god forgive me for using this term unironically) and civillians on social media claiming LLMs are anything but word calculators?

I think that's a perfect description by the way, I'm going to steal it.

Re: Large Enough

#302

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Testing models on their tokenization has always struck me as kinda odd. Like, that has nothing to do with their intelligence.

I don’t know anything about LLMs beyond using ChatGPT and Copilot… but unless because of this lack of knowledge I am misinterpreting your reply - it sounds as if you are excusing the model giving a completely wrong answer to a question that anyone intelligent enough to learn alphabet can answer correctly.

The problem is that the model never gets to see individual letters. The tokenizers used by these models break up the input in pieces. Even though the smallest pieces/units are bytes in most encodings (e.g. BBPE), the tokenizer will cut up most of the input in much larger units, because the vocabulary will contain fragments of words or even whole words.

For example, if we tokenize Welcome to Hacker News, I hope you like strawberries. The Llama 405B tokenizer will tokenize this as:

    Welcome Ġto ĠHacker ĠNews , ĠI Ġhope Ġyou Ġlike Ġstrawberries .
(Ġ means that the token was preceded by a space.)

Each of these pieces is looked up and encoded as a tensor with their indices. Adding a special token for the beginning and end of the text, giving:

    [128000, 14262, 311, 89165, 5513, 11, 358, 3987, 499, 1093, 76203, 13]
So, all the model sees for 'Ġstrawberries' is the number 76204 (which is then used in the piece embedding lookup). The model does not even have access to the individual letters of the word.

Of course, one could argue that the model should be fed with bytes or codepoints instead, but that would make them vastly less efficient with quadratic attention. Though machine learning models have done this in the past and may do this again in the future.

Just wanted to finish of this comment with saying that the tokens might be provided in the model splitted if the token itself is not in the vocabulary. For instance, the same sentence translated to my native language is tokenized as:

    Wel kom Ġop ĠHacker ĠNews , Ġik Ġhoop Ġdat Ġje Ġvan Ġa ard be ien Ġh oud t .
And the word voor strawberries (aardbeien) is split, though still not in letters.

Re: Large Enough

#303
post #201
post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When using a prompt that involves thinking first, all three get it correct. "Count how many rs are in the word strawberry. First, list each letter and indicate whether it's an r and tally as you go, and then give a count at the end." Llama 405b: correct Mistral Large 2: correct Claude 3.5 Sonnet: correct

Chain-of-Thought (CoT) prompting to the rescue! We should always put some effort into prompt engineering before dismissing the potential of generative AI.

Why doesn't the model prompt engineer itself?

Re: Large Enough

#304
post #297

I kind of wonder why a lot of these places don't give "amateur" sized models anymore at around the 18B & 30B parameter sizes that you can run on a single 3090 or M2 Max at reasonable speeds and RAM requirements? It's all 7B, 70B, 400B sizing nowadays.

Because you can just quantise the 70B model to 3-4 bits and it'll perform better than a 30B model but be a similar size.

Re: Large Enough

#305
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn’t test “on tokenization” though. What happens when an answer is generated is few abstraction levels deeper than tokens. A “thinking” “slice” of an llm is completely unaware of tokens as an immediate part of its reasoning. The question just shows lack of systemic knowledge about strawberry as a word (which isn’t surprising, tbh).

It is. Strawberry is one token in many tokenziers. The model doesn't have a concept that there are letters there.

If I ask an LLM to generate new words for some concept or category, it can do that. How do the new words form, if not from joining letters?

Re: Large Enough

#306
post #91
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sell widgets. I promise the incalculable power of widgets has yet to be unleashed on the world, but it is tremendous and awesome and we should all be very afraid of widgets taking over the world because I can't see how they won't. Anyway here's the sales page. the widget subscription is so premium you won't even miss the subscription fee.

This. It's really weird the way we suddenly live in a world where it's the norm to take whatever a tech company says about future products at face value. This is the same world where Tesla promised "zero intervention LA to NYC self driving" by the end of the year in 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, and 2024. The same world where we know for a fact that multiple GenAI demos by multiple companies were ju…

Nobody tells it like Zitron:

https://www.wheresyoured.at/pop-culture/

> What makes this interview – and really, this paper — so remarkable is how thoroughly and aggressively it attacks every bit of marketing collateral the AI movement has. Acemoglu specifically questions the belief that AI models will simply get more powerful as we throw more data and GPU capacity at them, and specifically ask a question: what does it mean to "double AI's capabilities"? How does that actually make something like, say, a customer service rep better? And this is a specific problem with the AI fantasists' spiel. They heavily rely on the idea that not only will these large language models (LLMs) get more powerful, but that getting more powerful will somehow grant it the power to do...something. As Acemoglu says, "what does it mean to double AI's capabilities?"

Re: Large Enough

#307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Testing models on their tokenization has always struck me as kinda odd. Like, that has nothing to do with their intelligence.

I would counterargue with "that's the model's problem, not mine". Here's a thought experiment: if I gave you 5 boxes and told you "how many balls are there in all of this boxes?" and you answered "I don't know because they are inside boxes", that's a fail. A truly intelligent individual would open them and look inside. A truly intelligent model would (say) retokenize the word into its individual letters (which I'm op…

It just needs a little hint

    Me: spell "strawberry" with 1 bullet point per letter
    ChatGPT:
       S
       T
       R
       A
       W
       B
       E
       R
       R
       Y
    Me: How many Rs? 
    ChatGPT: There are three Rs in "strawberry".

Re: Large Enough

#308

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All 3 models you ranked cannot get "how many r's are in strawberry?" correct. They all claim 2 r's unless you press them. With all the training data I'm surprised none of them fixed this yet.

Testing models on their tokenization has always struck me as kinda odd. Like, that has nothing to do with their intelligence.

Its like showing someone a color and asking how many letters it has. 4... 3? blau, blue, azul, blu The color holds the meaning and the words all map back.

In the model the individual letters hold little meaning. Words are composed of letters but simply because we need some sort of organized structure for communication that helps represents meaning and intent. Just like our color blue/blau/azul/blu.

Not faulting them for asking the question but I agree that the results do not undermine the capability of the technology. In fact it just helps highlight the constraints and need for education.

Re: Large Enough

#309
post #266

Imagine bragging about 74% accuracy in any other field of software. You'd be laughed out of the room. But somehow it's accepted in "AI".

Well, we had close to 0% a few years ago (for general purpose AI). I think it's not bad...

Re: Large Enough

#310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All 3 models you ranked cannot get "how many r's are in strawberry?" correct. They all claim 2 r's unless you press them. With all the training data I'm surprised none of them fixed this yet.

Testing models on their tokenization has always struck me as kinda odd. Like, that has nothing to do with their intelligence.

> Like, that has nothing to do with their intelligence.

Because they don't have intelligence.

If they did, they could count the letters in strawberry.

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