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More delays for Euston's HS2 station

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Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station

#31

Post by goodcanadian »

stirlo wrote: post #14

"Currently, all the costs fall on HS2, whereas the profits from the oversite development go to the Treasury. So although both are effectively arms of the government, the Treausry’s desire for a larger oversite development piled costs onto HS2 that it is not able to offset from the extra property sales." Remarkable how rules accounting rules like this can derail a project. Clearly any foundational costs for commercial…

Remarkable how rules accounting rules like this can derail a project.

Almost as though it was done on purpose in order to derail the project . . .

Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station

#32

Post by zimpenfish »

chii wrote: post #28
SilverBirch wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've been in charge for about 3 weeks. Did you want them to come up with plans for a national strategy on rail for the next 25 years within the first 3 weeks?

Why werent they thinking about this for the past 10 years when they're not been in power?

You can think about it for the past 10 years but since your thinking is reactionary to the incumbent government (who had a propensity for random decisions!), you might as well have the most basic of plans until you've got a chance to sit down and ponder without interference.

Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station

#33

Post by dkdbejwi383 »

chii wrote: post #28
SilverBirch wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've been in charge for about 3 weeks. Did you want them to come up with plans for a national strategy on rail for the next 25 years within the first 3 weeks?

Why werent they thinking about this for the past 10 years when they're not been in power?

You can think about it, but then have to deal with the reality of finances etc once actually in power. Back seat driving is a different game.

Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station

#34

Post by bananapub »

stirlo wrote: post #14

"Currently, all the costs fall on HS2, whereas the profits from the oversite development go to the Treasury. So although both are effectively arms of the government, the Treausry’s desire for a larger oversite development piled costs onto HS2 that it is not able to offset from the extra property sales." Remarkable how rules accounting rules like this can derail a project. Clearly any foundational costs for commercial…

> Remarkable how rules accounting rules like this can derail a project.

it's only remarkable in the sense that British politicians allow government to be like this. the PM can tell the Treasury and Chancellor to fuck off and account for things in a more useful way, but they simply don't.

Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station

#35

Post by KingOfCoders »

f_allwein wrote: post #9
zarzavat wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike HS2, the Indonesian high speed train does not attempt to go to the city center. Instead, there is a slow feeder train to get to the terminal on the outskirts of Bandung that takes almost as long as the high speed train itself. So, Asia has not solved this particular problem either. The main problem with HS2 is that it goes underground through rural areas for political reasons.

High speed trains in France, Germany, Italy, ... all usually go to the city centres as well.

The downside here in Germany, the trains are very fast but then slow down to go to the city center (Munich, Leipzig, Hamburg + also too many stops in general for political reasons) - so it still takes a working day to travel around.

As Amdahl's law applies here, newer high speed trains in Germany are no longer as fast, because if you have these slow passages / many stops, there is no difference between 250 and 300 (there are some prestige 300km/h lines).

Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station

#36

Post by panick21_ »

goodcanadian wrote: post #29
SilverBirch wrote: post #24

To be honest I think with a lot of policy issues in the UK at the moment you need to just give the government a bit of time to breath. Sunak's decision making on HS2 was bizarre bad long term/short term/pragmatic/polcitical. It was just one of those bizarre moments where he had sort of a correct aim and then changed that aim into "How can I cause as much damage as possible". So the current policy is extremely expensi…

I would love to see HS2 reinstated, but I agree that it is not likely at this time. There are likely higher priority projects that should go ahead first (some form of Northern Powerhouse, for example). At a minimum, though, I do hope that they protect the route for HS2 north of Birmingham even if construction is indefinitely deferred. It is going to be needed eventually.

HS2 is by far the most important transportation project, it massively impacts the whole rail system. HS2 connects North and South like never before. And it massively improves what you can do with regional and local trains on the rest of the network.

And its pretty much ready to go. Work is lined up and planed. All it needs is political support and funding.

Other projects should be done, but they should be planned in the understanding of how the whole network is reworked with HS2.

Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station

#37

Post by barnabee »

chii wrote: post #28
SilverBirch wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've been in charge for about 3 weeks. Did you want them to come up with plans for a national strategy on rail for the next 25 years within the first 3 weeks?

Why werent they thinking about this for the past 10 years when they're not been in power?

You don’t have the money nor the armies of civil servants, nor access to all the details when you’re not in government.

Probably the best that they can do for anything this complex is headline policies and high level plans.

Now they are in power it’s probably only 10–20% about having the right policy and 80–90% about execution being competent, consistent, and quick.

They need to be given time to do the right thing, but not too much time.

Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station

#39

Post by n4r9 »

chii wrote: post #28
SilverBirch wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They've been in charge for about 3 weeks. Did you want them to come up with plans for a national strategy on rail for the next 25 years within the first 3 weeks?

Why werent they thinking about this for the past 10 years when they're not been in power?

They were. Corbyn announced a nationalisation plan in 2015. But Labour is not a monolith, and Starmer has decided to distance himself from anything that smells vaguely Corbynish.

Re: More delays for Euston's HS2 station

#40

Post by Ylpertnodi »

Angostura wrote: post #13
panick21_ wrote: post #6

Laber needs to get off its ass and reorganize this. The way the whole HS2 thing is organised is braindead. Throwing all the costs for everything from stations to trains into the same semi-private company. Not learning best practices from Japan rail station operation. Building way to many tunnels because of a few braindead Nimbys. Simply recreate BritishRail, make the railroad public, including things like rolling sto…

One problem that Labour face is that the contracts are already signed. So, for example - a report just out from the Audit Commission says it will be cheaper to build platforms in Birmingham that will never be used, than to not use them.

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