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Open source AI is the path forward

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Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#391

Post by pjkundert »

Deployment of PKI-signed distributed software systems to use community-provisioned compute, bandwidth and storage at scale is, now quite literally, the future.

We mostly don’t all want or need the hardware to run these AIs ourselves, all the time. But, when we do, we need lots of it for a little while.

This is what Holochain was born to do. We can rent massive capacity when we need it, or earn money renting ours when we don’t.

All running cryptographically trusted software at Internet scale, without the knowledge or authorization of commercial or government “do-gooders”.

Exciting times!

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#392

Post by goatlover »

spiralk wrote: post #322
pwdisswordfishd wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Makes me wonder why he's really doing this. Zuckerberg being Zuckerberg, it can't be out of any genuine sense of altruism. Probably just wants to crush all competitors before he monetizes the next generation of Meta AI.

Its certainly not altruism. Given that Facebook/Meta owns the largest user data collection systems, any advancement in AI ultimately strengthens their business model (which is still mostly collecting private user data, amassing large user datasets, and selling targeting ads). There is a demo video that shows a user wearing a Quest VR headset and asks the AI "what do you see" and it interprets everything around it. Th…

That's very dystopian. It's bad enough having cameras everywhere now. I never opted in to being recorded.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#393

Post by [deleted] »

causal wrote: post #41
the8thbit wrote: post #12

"Eventually though, open source Linux gained popularity – initially because it allowed developers to modify its code however they wanted ..." I find the language around "open source AI" to be confusing. With "open source" there's usually "source" to open, right? As in, there is human legible code that can be read and modified by the user? If so, then how can current ML models be open source? They're very large matric…

"Open weights" is a more appropriate term but I'll point out that these weights are also largely inscrutable to the people with the code that trained it. And for licensing reasons, the datasets may not be possible to share. There is still a lot of modifying you can do with a set of weights, and they make great foundations for new stuff, but yeah we may never see a competitive model that's 100% buildable at home. Edit…

[deleted]

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#395

Post by finolex1 »

indus wrote: post #149

Is there an argument against Open Source AI? Not the usual nation-state rhetoric, but something that justifies that closed source leads to better user-experience and fewer security and privacy issues. An ecosystem that benefits vendors, customers, and the makers of close source? Are there historical analogies other than Microsoft Windows or Apple iPhone / iOS?

Replace "Open Source AI" in "is there an argument against xxx" with bioweapons or nuclear missiles. We are obviously not at that stage yet, but it could be a real, non-trivial concern in the near future.

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#396

Post by celdon25 »

quasse wrote: post #355
ori_b wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If that ever stops being the case, you should fork rather than trust their judgment. Fork what? The secret sauce is in the training data and infrastructure. I don't think either of those is currently open.

I'm just a lowly outsider to the AI space, but calling these open source models seems kind of like calling a compiled binary open source. If you don't have a way to replicate what they did to create the model, it seems more like freeware than open source.

> it seems more like freeware than open source.

What would you have them do instead? Specifically?

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#397

Post by ein0p »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #356
ori_b wrote: post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If that ever stops being the case, you should fork rather than trust their judgment. Fork what? The secret sauce is in the training data and infrastructure. I don't think either of those is currently open.

A good point. Forgive me, I am AI naive, is there some way to harness Llama to train ones own actually-open AI?

I could be wrong but most “model” licenses prohibit the use of the models to improve other models

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#398

Post by tomp »

sheepscreek wrote: post #315
jessechin wrote: post #269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if you have a H100 cluster. If you quant it to int4 you might get away with using only 4 H100 GPUs!

Assuming $25k a pop, that’s at least $100k in just the GPUs alone. Throw in their linking technology (NVLink) and cost for the remaining parts, won’t be surprised if you’re looking at $150k for such a cluster. Which is not bad to be honest, for something at this scale. Can anyone share the cost of their pre-built clusters, they’ve recently started selling? (sorry feeling lazy to research atm, I might do that later wh…

you're about right.

https://smicro.eu/nvidia-hgx-h100-640gb-935-24287-0001-000-1

8x H100 HGX cluster for €250k + VAT

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#399

Post by pmarreck »

ladzoppelin wrote: post #353
advael wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Look, absolutely zero people in the world should trust any tech company when they say they care about or will keep commitments to the open-source ecosystem in any capacity. Nevertheless, it is occasionally strategic for them to do so, and there can be ancillary benefits for said ecosystem in those moments where this is the best play for them to harm their competitors For now, Meta seems to release Llama models in way…

Is forking really possible with an LLM or one the size of future Lama versions, have they even released the weights and everything? Maybe I am just negative about it because I feel Meta is the worst company ever invented and feel this will hurt society in the long run just like Facebook.

When you run `ollama pull llama3.1:70b`, which you can literally do right now (assuming ollama.com is installed and you're not afraid of the terminal), and it downloads a 40 gigabyte model, that is the weights!

I'd consider the ability to admit when even your most hated adversary is doing something right, a hallmark of acting smarter.

Now, they haven't released the training data with the model weights. THAT plus the training tooling would be "end to end open source". Apple actually did that very thing recently, and it flew under almost everyone's radar for some reason:

https://x.com/vaishaal/status/1813956553042711006?s=46&t=qWa...

Re: Open source AI is the path forward

#400

Post by goatlover »

aiauthoritydev wrote: post #275
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #7

“The Heavy Press Program was a Cold War-era program of the United States Air Force to build the largest forging presses and extrusion presses in the world.” This ”program began in 1944 and concluded in 1957 after construction of four forging presses and six extruders, at an overall cost of $279 million. Six of them are still in operation today, manufacturing structural parts for military and commercial aircraft” [1].…

Overall government doing anything is a bad idea. There are cases however where government is the only entity that can do certain things. These are things that involve military, law enforcement etc. Outside of this we should rely on private industry and for-profit industry as much as possible.

Why are governments a bad idea? Seems the human race has opted for governments doing things since the dawn of civilization. Building roads, providing defense, enforcing rights, provide social safety nets, funding costly scientific endeavors.
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