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The workers have spoken: They're staying home

computerworld.com

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Re: The workers have spoken: They're staying home

#251

Post by SebFender »

ghaff wrote: post #23
bunderbunder wrote: post #10

I think that companies might have more success getting people back to the office if they had not also spent the past decade or two systematically updating offices to be beautiful to look at in CAD renderings but awful to actually occupy and try to work in. This move toward not giving permanent desk assignments to people who are required to be in the office also makes it worse. Open plan offices are a bit of a product…

So much relates to commute. I'd probably meander in for a halfway decent office arrangement if it were less than a 30 minute walk and there were actually people I worked with there. But that hasn't been the case so I don't.

Yes and no. I lived (no joke) 1 minute away from work and if I still had the choice would mostly stay home. For me, an office now is kinda of a bar. I want to go sometimes for a moment and then get back to my place.

Re: The workers have spoken: They're staying home

#252

Post by tomp »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #20

My problem is that I quite like working with other people. It’s really hard to build relationships with other human beings when not in the same physical location- sharing jokes, lunches, walks and just shouting across the room about the weird code change . It’s vital. Most large companies think that as they are hiring “the best from around the world” that leaving them around the world is fine. Look leaving people on…

It’s simply unrealistic to move people.

A local good developer would cost ~200k in SF, but to move me and my family would take at least 2x that (to compensate for my partner’s lost income), possibly more (so that I can catch up to peers who’ve been saving US salaries for 10+ years, so that I can buy a house in a reasonable time).

Re: The workers have spoken: They're staying home

#253

Post by _xiaz »

bunderbunder wrote: post #10

I think that companies might have more success getting people back to the office if they had not also spent the past decade or two systematically updating offices to be beautiful to look at in CAD renderings but awful to actually occupy and try to work in. This move toward not giving permanent desk assignments to people who are required to be in the office also makes it worse. Open plan offices are a bit of a product…

Noise is a real concern that is largely unaccounted for in those CAD renderings sold to management. I'm sure that office done well can beat out remote jobs, but so many fail short

Re: The workers have spoken: They're staying home

#254

Post by _xiaz »

steelframe wrote: post #183

If you give me a private office I will come into work every day from 9-5 and make sure I spend at least 40 hours a week being "fully present" for work. If you force me to hot desk I will come into work as infrequently as possible and may or may not be "present" for work whether I'm at home or in the shared-space environment at the office. But the "fully present" metric doesn't show up on the bean counters' spreadshee…

It's not even your fault. You'll be so distracted by the turbulence of the open floor plan that even at your best you'll barely concentrate

Re: The workers have spoken: They're staying home

#255

Post by _xiaz »

Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #224
Aurornis wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Companies get so much more out of people working from home We actually saw a very bimodal split: One group of employees had virtually no measurable change (neither improvement or decline) in any metric, subjective or otherwise. The other group's productivity plummeted by nearly all metrics (again, from subjective performance reviews to any objective measures we looked at). The angry internet comment section solutio…

Then why forcing group 1 in office is acceptable, but forcing group 2 remote unacceptable?

Ideally noone gets forced and group 2 just has a little more space in the office

Re: The workers have spoken: They're staying home

#256

Post by _xiaz »

ozim wrote: post #59
PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget access to a fridge full of food that you picked, and a separate space to prepare it for lunch if you choose to do so.

My fav perk is having clean toilet and not shared with the people who don't understand why that brush is there on the side. Well maybe they know but they might also be super important managers who don't have time to be decent and not having time to wash hands because they have to make a dump and have 30 sec to get to the next meeting to shake hands firmly to assert dominance. :D

Ironically I like the shared toilets because they are cleaned daily and I can get away with cleaning mine at home a little less frequently.

Re: The workers have spoken: They're staying home

#257

Post by _xiaz »

dudus wrote: post #214

Why would US companies continue to pay US wages for people at home when there are remote people much cheaper in south America and Europe ?

Assuming this isn't just rhetorical: - Language - Culture - Time Zone - Bias (Racism to some degree) - Tax Law

just the top of my head

Re: The workers have spoken: They're staying home

#258

Post by Fire-Dragon-DoL »

_xiaz wrote: post #255
Fire-Dragon-DoL wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then why forcing group 1 in office is acceptable, but forcing group 2 remote unacceptable?

Ideally noone gets forced and group 2 just has a little more space in the office

I'd love that, but from my understanding, group 2 doesn't want to be at the office to attend zoom meetings

Re: The workers have spoken: They're staying home

#259

Post by asah »

johnnyanmac wrote: post #242
asah wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The rent-strugglers have the loudest voices... (and they're not "wrong" just skewing the media)

lies, damn lies, and statistics. It's an oft-mentioned point in the last few yearss to focus on raw income and not on spending power. if you get 50% more pay but rent doubles, the vast majority of people would have less spending power. same with job numbers. "Unemployment is historically low!". meanwhile, gig and part time worked soard while full time jobs dipped. In addition, you look further and realize how people…

Indeed it's complicated, but BLS does count them as "discouraged":

https://www.bls.gov/charts/employment-situation/persons-not-...

https://www.bls.gov/cps/lfcharacteristics.htm#discouraged

BLS may not be perfect but they're not idiots and it's wildly better than other countries.

Re: The workers have spoken: They're staying home

#260

Post by Justsignedup »

alexeiz wrote: post #205
Justsignedup wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mixed bag for me. My office is pretty decent but we have a bigger office than we currently need. My last job, at the office it was so loud (no dedicated conference rooms) that I was better off being at home, but unfortunately they also had zero respect for calendars, so getting in touch with people was... pretty much horrible no matter what way. In-office was less bad. I had offices with desks so small and shitty I j…

> boss that saw my desk and started complaining to HR that it was too big Wow, your boss is a real dickhead.

Sorry I said "Boss", I meant "CEO".

Yes. Yes he was. He felt that a half-sized ikea desk was too much space for people and needed to sardeen people into a room as tightly as possible.

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