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What Is Entropy?

johncarlosbaez.wordpress.com

81–90 of 221 posts

Re: What Is Entropy?

#81
post #12

My definition: Entropy is a measure of the accumulation of non-reversible energy transfers. Side note: All reversible energy transfers involve an increase in potential energy. All non-reversible energy transfers involve a decrease in potential energy.

[deleted]

Re: What Is Entropy?

#82

I've always favored this down-to-earth characterization of the entropy of a discrete probability distribution. (I'm a big fan of John Baez's writing, but I was surprised glancing through the PDF to find that he doesn't seem to mention this viewpoint.) Think of the distribution as a histogram over some bins. Then, the entropy is a measurement of, if I throw many many balls at random into those bins, the probability th…

Hey did you want to say relative entropy ~ rate function ~ KL divergence. Might be more familiar to ML enthusiasts here, get them to be curious about Sanov or large deviations.

Re: What Is Entropy?

#85
The book might disappoint some..

>I have largely avoided the second law of thermodynamics ... Thus, the aspects of entropy most beloved by physics popularizers will not be found here.

But personally, this bit is the most exciting to me.

>I have tried to say as little as possible about quantum mechanics, to keep the physics prerequisites low. However, Planck’s constant shows up in the formulas for the entropy of the three classical systems mentioned above. The reason for this is fascinating: Planck’s constant provides a unit of volume in position-momentum space, which is necessary to define the entropy of these systems. Thus, we need a tiny bit of quantum mechanics to get a good approximate formula for the entropy of hydrogen, even if we are trying our best to treat this gas classically.

Re: What Is Entropy?

#86
post #18

I felt like I finally understood Shannon entropy when I realized that it's a subjective quantity -- a property of the observer, not the observed. The entropy of a variable X is the amount of information required to drive the observer's uncertainty about the value of X to zero. As a correlate, your uncertainty and mine about the value of the same variable X could be different. This is trivially true, as we could each…

Baez has a video (accompanying, imho), with slides

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5phJVSWdWg4&t=17m

He illustrates the derivation of Shannon entropy with pictures of trees

Re: What Is Entropy?

#87
post #13
post #3

A well known anecdote reported by Shannon: "My greatest concern was what to call it. I thought of calling it 'information,' but the word was overly used, so I decided to call it 'uncertainty.' When I discussed it with John von Neumann, he had a better idea. Von Neumann told me, 'You should call it entropy, for two reasons. In the first place your uncertainty function has been used in statistical mechanics under that…

Von Neumann was the king of kings

So much so, he has his own entropy!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Von_Neumann_entropy

Re: What Is Entropy?

#88

I've always favored this down-to-earth characterization of the entropy of a discrete probability distribution. (I'm a big fan of John Baez's writing, but I was surprised glancing through the PDF to find that he doesn't seem to mention this viewpoint.) Think of the distribution as a histogram over some bins. Then, the entropy is a measurement of, if I throw many many balls at random into those bins, the probability th…

Hey did you want to say relative entropy ~ rate function ~ KL divergence. Might be more familiar to ML enthusiasts here, get them to be curious about Sanov or large deviations.

That's right, here log(k) - H(p) is really the relative entropy (or KL divergence) between p and the uniform distribution, and all the same stuff is true for a different "reference distribution" of the probabilities of balls landing in each bin.

For discrete distributions the "absolute entropy" (just sum of -p log(p) as it shows up in Shannon entropy or statistical mechanics) is in this way really a special case of relative entropy. For continuous distributions, say over real numbers, the analogous quantity (integral of -p log(p)) isn't a relative entropy since there's no "uniform distribution over all real numbers". This still plays an important role in various situations and calculations...but, at least to my mind, it's a formally similar but conceptually separate object.

Re: What Is Entropy?

#89
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well it's part of math, which physics is already based on. Whereas metaphysics is, imo, "stuff that's made up and doesn't matter". Probably not the most standard take.

I'm wondering, isn't Information Theory as much part of physics as Thermodynamics is?

Not really. Information theory applies to anything probability applies to, including many situations that aren't "physics" per se. For instance it has a lot to do with algorithms and data as well. I think of it as being at the level of geometry and calculus.

Re: What Is Entropy?

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Entropy is a property of a distribution, but since math does sometimes get applied, we also attach distributions to things (eg. the entropy of a random number generator, the entropy of a gas...). Then when we talk about the entropy of those things, those entropies are indeed subjective, because different subjects will attach different probability distributions to that system depending on their information about that…

Some probability distributions are objective. The probability that my random number generator gives me a certain number is given by a certain formula. Describing it with another distribution would be wrong. Another example, if you have an electron in a superposition of half spin-up and half spin-down, then the probability to measure up is objectively 50%. Another example, GPT-2 is a probability distribution on sequen…

Of those, the quantum superposition is the only one that has a chance at being considered objective, and it's still only "objective" in the sense that (as far as we know) your description provided as much information as anyone can possibly have about it, so nobody can have a more-informed opinion and all subjects agree.

The others are both partial-information problems which are very sensitive to knowing certain hidden-state information. Your random number generator gives you a number that you didn't expect, and for which a formula describes your best guess based on available incomplete information, but the computer program that generated knew which one to choose and it would not have picked any other. Anyone who knew the hidden state of the RNG would also have assigned a different probability to that number being chosen.

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