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Ask HN: Is making clones bad?

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Re: Ask HN: Is making clones bad?

#31

Post by davidw »

modoc wrote: post #24
vaksel wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yet 5 years later the guy who built "this new web-app" is still floundering trying to compete with the behemoths for attention, while the guy who did a +1 in a foreign market is #1 or #2 in his country, rolling around in millions and waiting to be acquired for a ton of money. Nothing is stopping the guy who did +1 from doing the innovative thing after he makes his millions.

That's a certainly a very polarized guess at the future. It could very easily go the other way, and has for many folks.

Could, yeah, lots of things could happen. My guess is the "first mover localization play" is, more often than not, a lower risk, lower payoff sort of thing. You're never going to be the next Google, but then again, you can see that the original service is working pretty well - you're not creating something that's never been done before, so you have an example to follow, and if you execute well and play your cards right, you have a decent (or at least better) shot at making money than the 'blue sky' sorts of projects.

Re: Ask HN: Is making clones bad?

#32

Post by mixmax »

I actually hacked up a clone of HN because I thought it would be nice with a hn-like site for "normal" news in Danish and there aren't any. I don't feel bad about it in any way because it doesn't infringe or subtract from HN since it's a totally different crowd.

If you want you can check it out here: http://www.deloghersk.dk (still has a few bugs...)

Re: Ask HN: Is making clones bad?

#33

Post by davidw »

modoc wrote: post #21
alex_c wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it depends what you're after. Building something brand new is more interesting and challenging, but taking a proven design and introducing it to an untapped market has a higher probability of resulting in "something people use", for substantially less effort. So I disagree with the "I have nothing better I can do" sentiment.

Fair enough. It sounds like a smart business move, but a weak "hacker" move.

Someone once said this:

> That's the essence of a startup: having brilliant people do work that's beneath them.... Think Einstein designing refrigerators.

The idea being that once you've made your pile, you can go on to do more interesting things, like novel startup generator startups, or writing your own toenail clippings and oatmeal language, or whatever else you fancy:-)

Re: Ask HN: Is making clones bad?

#34

Post by modoc »

davidw wrote: post #31
modoc wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a certainly a very polarized guess at the future. It could very easily go the other way, and has for many folks.

Could, yeah, lots of things could happen. My guess is the "first mover localization play" is, more often than not, a lower risk, lower payoff sort of thing. You're never going to be the next Google, but then again, you can see that the original service is working pretty well - you're not creating something that's never been done before, so you have an example to follow, and if you execute well and play your cards rig…

I think it puts you at a disadvantage. It's generally far easier for the established, high-traffic, high PR, etc... player to add a new resource bundle with language de jour, than for you to rebuild their application and get the traction they already have.

Plus, if they came up with something new to begin with, they probably have smart folks coming up with ideas on what to add/enhance next.

I'm not saying it's a bad business move, or that doing something in order to make money is wrong, but copying someone else's effort just feels a lot closer to domain squatting than creating value (although yes, having a localized version of the web-app has some value) to me.

While I wasn't first to the market space with 10MinuteMail (actually I hadn't even looked if anyone else was doing it, as I was just doing it to teach myself Seam), 10MinuteMail definitely had a twist on the temporary e-mail thing (a good twist for some users/uses, bad for others). 20MinuteMail sprang up shortly after 10MintuteMail, and there a number of people who have or are trying to sell "10 Minute Mail Clone" scripts on various sites. So I've been on the receiving end of the pure cloning play. It feels kinda slimy to me. Plus 20mintutemail has less users since Aug '07 than I had before lunch today, so I'm really not sure it's a smart move for the cloners.

Re: Ask HN: Is making clones bad?

#36

Post by danw »

sachinag wrote: post #27
danw wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. Buying a facebook clone would be for the user base.

StudiVZ had an exit - just not to Facebook. There are many exits as long as you have users.

I didn't know StudiVZ had made an exit, thanks for pointing that out. To a publishing company too, very forward thinking.

Re: Ask HN: Is making clones bad?

#37

Post by kingnothing »

eugenejen wrote: post #9

"Bad artists copy. Great artists steal." -- Pablo Picasso. I think as long as your friend is conscious what Picasso said in the quote above, it will be ok. Because the clone is just the starting point. There is market there but no product is available. So by cloning this product, he gets his foot out of the door and the rest of journey is up to him.

I've always heard that quote as "Good artists copy; great artists steal."

Any idea which is correct?

Re: Ask HN: Is making clones bad?

#38

Post by SingAlong »

modoc wrote: post #11
wesley wrote: post #3

Err, localizing the site is already offering something better. I'd say go for it. Are you suggesting non-english people simply shouldn't have access to such a site because it already exists in english and the company chose not to build a localized version? There's a huge market there ripe for the picking and many American companies aren't taking notice.

While you're offering something better, you're not offering a new actual feature or function, just a swap of the text. It's like adding an 'S' to someone else's big word in Scrabble. Yes, you get the points, but it's not nearly as satisfying as laying down your own word. It's a move of last resort: "I have nothing better I can do". I'm not saying he shouldn't do it, but if I'm at a gathering and person A says "I buil…

I too had the same thought. If he(friend) wants to go for money over an interesting hacker life and his clone idea works out, he has his share of cake.

If he chooses an interesting hacker life over money, he sure shouldn't clone it if he cannot add innovative ideas to it.

I'm glad that a lot of guys here share my hacker zeal.

Re: Ask HN: Is making clones bad?

#39

Post by joshu »

For an exact clone, it's pretty lame. And even worse, because the cloning process doesn't teach you any of the reasons the product is like that, when you DO need to diverge, you won't have learned anything.

It used to really upset me as the creator, as well. But then I realized they don't really have what it takes to be successful, anyway.

Re: Ask HN: Is making clones bad?

#40

Post by owkaye »

wheels wrote: post #30

I have mixed feelings here. On the one hand, from a market perspective I think, "Sure, why not. Just exploit the race condition that exists between The Next Big Thing in the US and those startups recognizing the European market." On the other hand, as someone that cares about the health of the European startup scene, it doesn't set a good precedent that successful European startups tend to far too often just be knock…

It's not all "America to Europe" you know ... there are startups in Europe that are innovating in ways the Americans haven't tried yet. Maybe not many of them, but my new business is based on one of them and it wasn't that hard to find.

The European company mine is modeled after is not doing well because they've made a fatal flaw in their implementation that's preventing their growth, and it seems their management doesn't recognize this, but other than this simple issue their business concept is sound, and when they eventually recognize this issue I'm sure they will do well.

But I'm American and I want to bring the same service to the USA so I'm proceeding with a slightly modified version -- one that will actually work well in the USA. I see nothing wrong with this whatsoever, it's a simple task of bringing a good service to places where the originator cannot or will not.

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