A new path for Privacy Sandbox on the web • Hacker News Board

Re: A new path for Privacy Sandbox on the web

#21

Post by jeroenhd » Mon, Jul 22, 2024, 9:23 PM UTC

deskr wrote: post #8

robhlt wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The new path is they aren't deprecating third-party cookies anymore. Instead they're going to "introduce a new experience in Chrome that lets people make an informed choice that applies across their web browsing" (in the 4th paragraph).

It'll be like Android's location sharing with Google. Nothing works unless you agree to a wholesale google location surveillance. Then they can say you agreed to this.

I disagree. Things may be different in the EU, but for every feature that triggered the "enable location history" popup, it made a lot of sense to require it. And, most importantly, you can just turn it off and everything important keeps working.

You can disable the "send a list of nearby cell towers to Google's live database" setting, the "send a list of Bluetooth beacons to Google's live database" setting, and the "send a list of WiFi networks to Google's live database" setting, all without losing location access. Your location access will become a lot slower, but that's just a consequence of having to rely on GPS again, like we did before all of these extra features became available.

Google is even making their location history feature worse because they don't like how many blanket location history requests they're receiving from authorities, by moving location history to be stored on-device.

For years Google lied about consent users supposedly gave for some types of location tracking, but after they got found out (and the authorities got involved) they changed their tune.

Re: A new path for Privacy Sandbox on the web

#22

Post by jeroenhd » Mon, Jul 22, 2024, 9:25 PM UTC

agwa wrote: post #16

jcranmer wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because Google (the ad provider) gets to do all the tracking without third-party cookies (by asking Google (the web browser) for that information), which the other ad providers can't do.

I'm not aware of any functionality in Chrome that allows Google to get tracking data that other ad providers can't, but it seems like regulators should target that instead of preventing Chrome from banning third-party cookies.

Google's competitors complained that they couldn't track users enough with Google's proposed new scheme. They had to bend over backwards and make privacy worse to make the scheme pass the regulators.

Market regulators don't care about privacy or data safety, they care about whether your local ad agency can make as much money as Google can doing the same stuff.

Re: A new path for Privacy Sandbox on the web

#23

Post by freitasm » Mon, Jul 22, 2024, 9:26 PM UTC

> "Instead of deprecating third-party cookies, we would introduce a new experience in Chrome that lets people make an informed choice that applies across their web browsing, and they’d be able to adjust that choice at any time."

Do we believe an average Internet user has any knowledge to make an "informed decision"?

Re: A new path for Privacy Sandbox on the web

#24

Post by svat » Mon, Jul 22, 2024, 9:27 PM UTC

> Throughout this process, we’ve received feedback from a wide variety of stakeholders, including regulators like the UK’s Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) and Information Commissioner's Office (ICO), publishers, web developers and standards groups, civil society, and participants in the advertising industry.

Chrome (and Google in general) has a tough problem of having to satisfy such diametrically opposed "stakeholders" -- being stuck in the middle and having to satisfy both "civil society" and "the advertising industry" means it won't do a great job at either, no matter what.

Re: A new path for Privacy Sandbox on the web

#25

Post by Doctor_Fegg » Mon, Jul 22, 2024, 9:30 PM UTC

> including regulators like the UK’s Competition and Markets Authority (CMA) and Information Commissioner's Office (ICO)

> as we finalize this approach, we’ll continue to consult with the CMA, ICO and other regulators globally

Very interesting that it specifically calls out the little UK regulators rather than the much bigger US or EU bodies.

Re: A new path for Privacy Sandbox on the web

#26

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jul 22, 2024, 9:32 PM UTC

jeroenhd wrote: post #21

deskr wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll be like Android's location sharing with Google. Nothing works unless you agree to a wholesale google location surveillance. Then they can say you agreed to this.

I disagree. Things may be different in the EU, but for every feature that triggered the "enable location history" popup, it made a lot of sense to require it. And, most importantly, you can just turn it off and everything important keeps working. You can disable the "send a list of nearby cell towers to Google's live database" setting, the "send a list of Bluetooth beacons to Google's live database" setting, and the…

[deleted]

Re: A new path for Privacy Sandbox on the web

#27

Post by righthand » Mon, Jul 22, 2024, 9:40 PM UTC

btown wrote: post #15

From the OP: > Instead of deprecating third-party cookies, we would introduce a new experience in Chrome that lets people make an informed choice that applies across their web browsing, and they’d be able to adjust that choice at any time. The OP also cites https://support.google.com/admanager/answer/15189422 (also published today) which makes the "why" of this self-evident: > By comparing the treatment arm to contro…

> new experience in Chrome

An unnamed experience to replace a bad policy seems like the kind of thing you state when a project has failed and is winding down.

I agree that Google needs an eye kept on them though. They are never to be trusted.

Re: A new path for Privacy Sandbox on the web

#28

Post by JohnFen » Mon, Jul 22, 2024, 9:42 PM UTC

jeroenhd wrote: post #21

deskr wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll be like Android's location sharing with Google. Nothing works unless you agree to a wholesale google location surveillance. Then they can say you agreed to this.

I disagree. Things may be different in the EU, but for every feature that triggered the "enable location history" popup, it made a lot of sense to require it. And, most importantly, you can just turn it off and everything important keeps working. You can disable the "send a list of nearby cell towers to Google's live database" setting, the "send a list of Bluetooth beacons to Google's live database" setting, and the…

> after they got found out (and the authorities got involved) they changed their tune.

So we can expect similar shenanigans when it comes to the "privacy sandbox".

Re: A new path for Privacy Sandbox on the web

#29

Post by pupppet » Mon, Jul 22, 2024, 9:51 PM UTC

I've been wearily ignoring the "Third-party cookie will be blocked in future Chrome versions..." notice in the console for months now knowing I'd have to act on it eventually. Hurray for procrastination!

Re: A new path for Privacy Sandbox on the web

#30

Post by vmfunction » Mon, Jul 22, 2024, 9:52 PM UTC

jeroenhd wrote: post #21

deskr wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll be like Android's location sharing with Google. Nothing works unless you agree to a wholesale google location surveillance. Then they can say you agreed to this.

I disagree. Things may be different in the EU, but for every feature that triggered the "enable location history" popup, it made a lot of sense to require it. And, most importantly, you can just turn it off and everything important keeps working. You can disable the "send a list of nearby cell towers to Google's live database" setting, the "send a list of Bluetooth beacons to Google's live database" setting, and the…

>For years Google lied about consent users supposedly gave for some types of location tracking, but after they got found out (and the authorities got involved) they changed their tune.

And I will never trust google again after that with my person important data! No matter what day do now!