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The workers have spoken: They're staying home

computerworld.com

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Re: The workers have spoken: They're staying home

#91

Post by SoftTalker »

bunderbunder wrote: post #10

I think that companies might have more success getting people back to the office if they had not also spent the past decade or two systematically updating offices to be beautiful to look at in CAD renderings but awful to actually occupy and try to work in. This move toward not giving permanent desk assignments to people who are required to be in the office also makes it worse. Open plan offices are a bit of a product…

> Office life post-COVID is an entirely new thing that's worse than what office life was like pre-COVID

Yep. Now, on any given day, half the office is at home. So, even if you're there, you probably still need to use Zoom for meetings or collaboration. At that point, why? I don't like Zoom but if I have no choice I might as well be at home and not commuting in to a half-empty office.

I still find some value in working at work. I find it easier to focus, I'm not distracted by household tasks and activities. But I could achieve that by just getting out of the house, going to Starbucks, or a co-working space, or the park. I don't need a permanent office to go to.

Re: The workers have spoken: They're staying home

#92

Post by rednafi »

When I started my career in late 2018 and went fully remote in early 2020, a ton of folks said that the worst thing I could do as a junior software engineer was to work remotely.

Four years and a few promotions later, you couldn’t pay me extra to bring me back to the office. I like strict 9-5 work, and nothing can make me give up five hours of post-office daylight during the summer.

Re: The workers have spoken: They're staying home

#93

Post by skywhopper »

BenFranklin100 wrote: post #42
bunderbunder wrote: post #10

I think that companies might have more success getting people back to the office if they had not also spent the past decade or two systematically updating offices to be beautiful to look at in CAD renderings but awful to actually occupy and try to work in. This move toward not giving permanent desk assignments to people who are required to be in the office also makes it worse. Open plan offices are a bit of a product…

It is incredibly short sighted not to provide a dedicated desk.

I’ve been amazed that none of the companies who have long-term leases they hate to waste have tried building actual personal offices for their staff in the space. Let the folks who moved further away stay home, but make the actual office experience something better.

Re: The workers have spoken: They're staying home

#94

Post by jayd16 »

bunderbunder wrote: post #10

I think that companies might have more success getting people back to the office if they had not also spent the past decade or two systematically updating offices to be beautiful to look at in CAD renderings but awful to actually occupy and try to work in. This move toward not giving permanent desk assignments to people who are required to be in the office also makes it worse. Open plan offices are a bit of a product…

> This move toward not giving permanent desk assignments to people who are required to be in the office also makes it worse.

Yeah, this is a real noodle scratcher. WTH is the logic here?

Re: The workers have spoken: They're staying home

#95

Post by toomuchtodo »

6LLvveMx2koXfwn wrote: post #21
bunderbunder wrote: post #10

I think that companies might have more success getting people back to the office if they had not also spent the past decade or two systematically updating offices to be beautiful to look at in CAD renderings but awful to actually occupy and try to work in. This move toward not giving permanent desk assignments to people who are required to be in the office also makes it worse. Open plan offices are a bit of a product…

'And so the mandatory in-office days are, in practice, just the days that fully remote team members need to cut the hybrid members some slack for not being able to get anything done.' - can I have a Slack status message this long?

"Holding Court, Responses Delayed :upside down face emoji:"

Re: The workers have spoken: They're staying home

#96

Post by eschneider »

jmyeet wrote: post #18

For the longest time, we tech workers have convinced ourselves we're special. We believe we can act on our own behalf against our employer on equal footing. We start to believe in the myth of meritocracy. Remember the "Day in the Life" vidoes? When was the last time you saw someone showing their amazing workspace, the free food, the amentities and all that? A few years ago they were everywhere. Now? Nowhere. We are n…

> But severance packages cost money. You know what's cheaper? Return to office mandates. A certain percentage of people will quit. That's a cheap layoff.

Depending on who decides to leave, it could be a VERY expensive layoff.

Re: The workers have spoken: They're staying home

#97

Post by qwerpy »

buildbot wrote: post #5

Companies get so much more out of people working from home - Microsoft has realized this and still broadly supports remote work.

Agree but Microsoft has more going for it than just remote work support. My wife switched from Microsoft to a much younger, hip tech company and her quality of life plummeted. The higher work intensity, forced RTO, and the overall lack of parents at the company and especially at the leadership levels made for an unsympathetic place for her to work while dealing with the day to day life of a parent to young children. RTO would not have been an issue at Microsoft even if they had mandated it due to the increased flexibility and chill. And the fact that it's in a safe suburb rather than the somewhat problematic streets of our west coast city. She chose to quit her job to be a stay at home mom. Despite all the lip service paid to supporting women's careers, the tech industry is showing its true colors.

Re: The workers have spoken: They're staying home

#98

Post by skywhopper »

gonzoflip wrote: post #82
phone8675309 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Never forget this - if this were "real" inflation and not corporate fuckery then their profits would be down.

If it is just corporate profits the state and county sure piled on by increasing my property taxes 40% over the past 3 years. That's an extra $300 a month for me which is more than my car payment. edit: changed country to county

Did the value of your property also increase over that time period?

Re: The workers have spoken: They're staying home

#99

Post by ashkankiani »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #30
dfrey wrote: post #4

They have given us fuck all for raises during a period of rampant inflation and now they want to take away the one good thing that covid-19 did for workers.

Median incomes have outpaced inflation over the last several years. https://www.axios.com/2024/02/05/wages-outpacing-inflation

I don't love the game of "someone posted a random article with some numbers that they found from a 5 minute Google search, but now I have to do the much harder & longer work of verifying if it's legitimate or misleading"

Re: The workers have spoken: They're staying home

#100

Post by LordKeren »

1970-01-01 wrote: post #66

It really is a 'you need to double my salary' kind of negotiation with your employer. When you're actually functional doing remote/home work, adding a commute to the job requirement is like adding vinegar to wine.

Even outside the salary negotiations, it’s astounding to me how many companies are calling for RTO just to have people go to the office and sit on zoom meetings — because the company has several offices.

I’m actually ok with RTO, but I’m not going to do it when there are no actual upsides because it’s only some days and the team is spread across the globe.

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