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No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

robkhenderson.com

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Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#391

Post by lazyeye »

jjk166 wrote: post #322

This whole article is talking about absentee fathers, but every example is listing why the mother left or kicked out the father. Nowhere in the article is mentioned the obvious common denominator - women are no longer utterly dependent on their husbands. People didn't stay together more often in the 50s because the couples were better, or because people were held to higher standards, it was because getting out of a t…

Im guessing you're one of these people described in the article that had a stable, family upbringing?

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#392

Post by ashf023 »

unpopularopp wrote: post #344

I see this as the victory sign of feminism. Women doesn't need men anymore so men are left on their own. Nothing wrong with that.

But the article talks about how the men are basically doing whatever they want and women are left as single mothers with multiple kids...

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#393

Post by graysonk »

portpecos wrote: post #381

> “Chanel, a white thirty-three-year-old with three children, ages fifteen, nine, and three, broke up with her youngest child’s father just after we met her for the first time. When we ask about him later, she says dismissively, ‘He’s not around no more. I got rid of him…He was only here to sleep—didn’t want to pay no bills, didn’t want to do nothing. When he was here all he did was fight and argue and drink. I had t…

This is an insane level of projection

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#394

Post by paulryanrogers »

portpecos wrote: post #366

> Amy, a white thirty-year-old mother of three, ages six, five, and three, had a boyfriend who worked steadily but insisted on spending on selfish pursuits. This is what eventually broke the young couple up. ‘He wouldn’t spend money for the kids’ food. I had to send my kids across the street to my mom’s to feed them and stuff. That’s what I got fed up with. I shouldn’t have to live like that…I said it’s time for him…

> Sweetie, we’re not married, so there’s no reason for you to expect I feed your children.

Dating a single parent isn't a strictly transactional affair. And it may be financially beneficial (for everyone) to not marry yet still cohabitate and pick up the slack in childrearing. YMMV.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#395

Post by bccdee »

These are some of the opening remarks of this article:

> It is usually the young father’s criminal behavior, the spells of incarceration that so often follow, a pattern of intimate violence, his chronic infidelity, and an inability to leave drugs and alcohol alone that cause relationships to falter and die.”

> Over the past half-century, the number of men per capita behind bars has more than quadrupled.

and this is the conclusion:

> Norms were loosened around being an absentee father. So more men took the option.

Is it just me, or is there a massive disconnect here? The rising prison population was not caused by a loosening of the norm that one should not go to prison; that's absurd on the face of it. Intimate violence and alcohol abuse have not somehow become de rigueur over the last few decades because of the luxury beliefs of the middle class.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#396

Post by swagasaurus-rex »

portpecos wrote: post #381

> “Chanel, a white thirty-three-year-old with three children, ages fifteen, nine, and three, broke up with her youngest child’s father just after we met her for the first time. When we ask about him later, she says dismissively, ‘He’s not around no more. I got rid of him…He was only here to sleep—didn’t want to pay no bills, didn’t want to do nothing. When he was here all he did was fight and argue and drink. I had t…

Sounds like she had at least two different fathers to her children, maybe 3.

This is poverty creating behavior. She made an enormous mistake bearing a child to not one, but two deadbeats, but she doesn’t frame it as her error.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#397

Post by [deleted] »

criddell wrote: post #316
Jeema101 wrote: post #74

The article seems to contain a lot of hand-wringing about upper class' beliefs allegedly harming lower class families, but I don't see any mention about the main change in the labor force since 1960 - namely the participation rate of women. Men probably work less nowadays simply because it's easier to do in a two-income household vs a one-income household.

The article also said "Those who sit at or near the apex of the social ladder (who decide what behaviors are prestigious) have decided that family stability is unimportant." Who is at the apex of the social ladder? Am I? I wish the author had expanded on this a little more because that feels like a high leverage point.

[deleted]

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#398

Post by codr7 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #187
mensetmanusman wrote: post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bandaid solutions to societal ills probably just prolong the suffering.

On the contrary, this is a pipeline problem. If you get to the root of the problem by avoiding unwanted children, the effort to paper over the suffering in the future is never needed. Society ain't changing on any meaningful timeline (based on all available evidence), "the purpose of the system is what it does," so attack the root cause in earnest. It is a choice to not actively solve for the suffering, so find an in…

A society that doesn't support having children won't lead anywhere worth going.

I'm pretty sure that given the support they needed, and a society that didn't program them all the way to want other things in life more; the numbers would look very different.

And that IS the long term problem.

Which is not at all an excuse for not solving other problems, I don't feel it has to be one or the other.

Society very much has, and is, changing; drastically, exponentially. And in an increasingly destructive direction for quite a while now.

And it will have to change into something more constructive, humane, rational; if it wants to survive at all.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#399

Post by lins1909 »

portpecos wrote: post #366

> Amy, a white thirty-year-old mother of three, ages six, five, and three, had a boyfriend who worked steadily but insisted on spending on selfish pursuits. This is what eventually broke the young couple up. ‘He wouldn’t spend money for the kids’ food. I had to send my kids across the street to my mom’s to feed them and stuff. That’s what I got fed up with. I shouldn’t have to live like that…I said it’s time for him…

Your translation is dishonest and dumb. Having three kids doesn't mean they were from three different guys.

Re: No one expects young men to do anything and they respond by doing nothing (2022)

#400

Post by JoeMerchant »

portpecos wrote: post #366

> Amy, a white thirty-year-old mother of three, ages six, five, and three, had a boyfriend who worked steadily but insisted on spending on selfish pursuits. This is what eventually broke the young couple up. ‘He wouldn’t spend money for the kids’ food. I had to send my kids across the street to my mom’s to feed them and stuff. That’s what I got fed up with. I shouldn’t have to live like that…I said it’s time for him…

Whether the boyfriend in question was the father was not explicitly stated. Further, I'd argue that if you want to date a lady, her kids come with that as a complete package. My two cents.
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