Caffeine suppresses cerebral grey matter responses to chronic sleep restriction • Hacker News Board

Re: Caffeine suppresses cerebral grey matter responses to chronic sleep restriction

#111

Post by criddell » Mon, Jul 22, 2024, 4:35 PM UTC

luqtas wrote: post #101

xanderlewis wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> caffeine addicts are standing in line at Starbucks Have you considered that those people queuing outside Starbucks might be drinking coffee because they enjoy the whole experience? Caffeine pills are an absurdity to me because I only drink coffee for the taste. Why suffer the unwanted effects of a drug without the enjoyment that it’s supposed to come with?

i think you are bitting the dust of getting used to the taste of a drug, just like people who drink wine, beer etc. these are literally toxic & you get a natural avoidance response the 1° time you try, with very rare cases of acceptance without repulse

Coffee is one of my very favorite things in the whole world and I don't ever remember a time where I didn't like it. Right from the start I've always preferred it black - no flavors or dairy.

Alcohol is a little different. Beer I loved from my first sip when I was probably 5 or 6. Whisky, gin, vodka, etc... I mostly didn't like until I learned a little bit more about the drinks and the flavors that alcohol can carry (it's why cooking with alcohol can be amazing).

My life with vegetables is similar. As a kid I thought there was nothing more vile than broccoli and brussel sprouts. I thought tomatoes were gross and grapefruit was pure poison. As an adult, I've learned to love all that stuff.

Palates change.

Re: Caffeine suppresses cerebral grey matter responses to chronic sleep restriction

#112

Post by riversflow » Mon, Jul 22, 2024, 4:36 PM UTC

andor wrote: post #35

mensetmanusman wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol reduces functions, caffeine clearly enhances functions. If caffeine was involved in nearly all violent crime like alcohol is, we would think differently of it.

I would claim that for regular users of caffeine, it merely restores function to a baseline level.

Everybody is different.

3 years ago I took a summer and then autumn off of caffeine; my intent was to quit and only use caffeine in "times of need". This would be an on-brand thing for me to do as a person, and something I wanted pretty bad. But after 4 full months without touching any caffeine, my mood/energy levels never returned or even really rebounded any further than they did after the first month. I'm just a different person with caffeine, even after I'm addicted/habituated/develop tolerance. Notably I have a lot more energy, and I'm not a high energy person to start with. This energy allows me to better take care of myself, exercise, and be social, all things that I struggle with in its absence.

From experience, I can function fine without caffeine, even under an acute withdrawal scenario. In fact, some of my greatest achievements were done without caffeine for one reason or another. Not having caffeine just makes those things more miserable in the moment, at least for me.

Re: Caffeine suppresses cerebral grey matter responses to chronic sleep restriction

#113

Post by Scoundreller » Mon, Jul 22, 2024, 4:36 PM UTC

kkielhofner wrote: post #84

wildzzz wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife uses caffeine pills on occasion but I prefer energy drinks most mornings alongside something like toast. Obviously more expensive but the drink has a slower come-up (likely due to the extra water and food). Whenever I do take pills instead, I'm in a rush so I'm not drinking more water than necessary and definitely not eating anything. I like the Celsius drink mixes since I can put one in my water bottle and d…

I completely understand what you mean by intake over time. Caffeine pills are more like take a pill, wait X minutes, and then get the sensation of “oh, there it is” as it all “hits” at once. There are more expensive time release variants but I don’t have much experience with them.

I just take the 200mg tabs, crack them into quarters and take the bits over time.

A quarter tab with a glass of cold water should hit slower than the same amount of caffeine pre-dissolved in an espresso. Likely matches up with a quickly downed coffee.

From time to time, I put a tab in a sodastream seltzer/sodawater (and wow does it make the bubbles release!)

Re: Caffeine suppresses cerebral grey matter responses to chronic sleep restriction

#114

Post by criddell » Mon, Jul 22, 2024, 4:37 PM UTC

skhunted wrote: post #102

luqtas wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i think you are bitting the dust of getting used to the taste of a drug, just like people who drink wine, beer etc. these are literally toxic & you get a natural avoidance response the 1° time you try, with very rare cases of acceptance without repulse

I never understood the acquired taste thing. If I don’t like the taste the first time I try something then there won’t be a second time. Why acquire a taste for something you didn’t originally like?

If people lived by that there would be a lot of adults who never want to eat anything other than chicken nuggets and mac 'n cheese.

For me, the biggest example is sushi. I didn't like it all the first time mostly because of the texture of the raw fish. Eating it with somebody who knew a lot about it changed everything for me. Now going to a great sushi restaurant is one of my very favorite things to do.

Re: Caffeine suppresses cerebral grey matter responses to chronic sleep restriction

#115

Post by guluarte » Mon, Jul 22, 2024, 4:38 PM UTC

eightysixfour wrote: post #40

austin-cheney wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All stimulants enhance some functions to some degree, so that is a poor metric of value. Cocaine, for example, temporarily boosts intelligence, but consuming cocaine is not recommended.

Does cocaine temporarily boost intelligence? I thought it boosted the feeling of being intelligent.

No but increases focus

Re: Caffeine suppresses cerebral grey matter responses to chronic sleep restriction

#116

Post by booleandilemma » Mon, Jul 22, 2024, 4:39 PM UTC

xanderlewis wrote: post #97

kkielhofner wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> highly profitable substance Yes and no. I've been a fan of caffeine pills for years. They are very cheap, readily available (portable), and most importantly to me offer completely consistent dosing. With caffeine pills I'm able to ensure I stay below the FDA recommended maximum daily intake of 400 mg (worst case). Another fun bonus - when a physician asks you what your caffeine intake is and you respond in milligra…

> caffeine addicts are standing in line at Starbucks Have you considered that those people queuing outside Starbucks might be drinking coffee because they enjoy the whole experience? Caffeine pills are an absurdity to me because I only drink coffee for the taste. Why suffer the unwanted effects of a drug without the enjoyment that it’s supposed to come with?

Overly competitive people over-optimizing everything. Why waste the time drinking a cup of coffee when you could just swallow a pill? The only enjoyment these people get are from beating others. They're not capable of appreciating a cup of coffee, or they think they're too busy to.

One of them is reading this comment right now and thinking about adding "appreciate coffee" to their calendar.

Re: Caffeine suppresses cerebral grey matter responses to chronic sleep restriction

#117

Post by guluarte » Mon, Jul 22, 2024, 4:40 PM UTC

itishappy wrote: post #91

gunapologist99 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all due respect, I wouldn't commit any crimes if caffeine was suddenly illegal. I'd have headaches for a few days and that'd be it.

With all due respect, I've heard the exact same thing from a number of folks taking Opioids after surgery. They were right, fortunately, and navigated their withdrawal symptoms without incident. I'm sure you're right too, but it's not a particularly convincing argument. I've definitely seen behaviors that horrify me from some of the caffeine addicts in my life. I bet caffeine prohibition would lead to a rise in domes…

Withdraw from caffeine is not the same as opioids

Re: Caffeine suppresses cerebral grey matter responses to chronic sleep restriction

#118

Post by vkou » Mon, Jul 22, 2024, 4:42 PM UTC

kkielhofner wrote: post #53

ilaksh wrote: post #30

I love my caffeine. But caffeine is an addictive, highly profitable substance. So advertising it and trying to promote it as somehow having real health benefits is widespread. I would not be surprised if routine consumption of caffeine was at least mildly detrimental to health. I think some drugs have managed to gain a special place in our society . Advertising and lobbying warps our perception of these drugs. I even…

> highly profitable substance Yes and no. I've been a fan of caffeine pills for years. They are very cheap, readily available (portable), and most importantly to me offer completely consistent dosing. With caffeine pills I'm able to ensure I stay below the FDA recommended maximum daily intake of 400 mg (worst case). Another fun bonus - when a physician asks you what your caffeine intake is and you respond in milligra…

At work, I drink coffee, decaf, black.

If I'm going to a coffee shop to drop $7, it's not because I'm an addict, it's because I want to splurge on a sweet dessert.

I also sometimes buy ice cream at the grocery, for the same reason.

I'm assuming you eat nothing but bread and water, unadulterated by anything that makes food delicious.

Re: Caffeine suppresses cerebral grey matter responses to chronic sleep restriction

#119

Post by smrtinsert » Mon, Jul 22, 2024, 4:42 PM UTC

ilaksh wrote: post #30

I love my caffeine. But caffeine is an addictive, highly profitable substance. So advertising it and trying to promote it as somehow having real health benefits is widespread. I would not be surprised if routine consumption of caffeine was at least mildly detrimental to health. I think some drugs have managed to gain a special place in our society . Advertising and lobbying warps our perception of these drugs. I even…

Anecdotal: I gave up my caffeine when it got the point that I was consuming 3-4 cups a day to combat persistent sleep deprivation and I noticed my stomach no longer would cooperate with it. Immediately, I began having dreams again which I hadn't had in years and didn't notice when they disappeared. I had bad headaches that tapered off after about 2-3 months. I awake usually refreshed, and my sleep patterns are much more regular, my body no longer can deal with less than 7 hours of sleep and will complain to me if I try to get away with less. My experience was ultimately that caffeine kept me awake but not at my cognitive best. I think it only worked before because I was younger and I'm now middle-aged. My stomach, brain, and body are better without a doubt. I still have small glasses of tea every once in a while when I really miss a hot drink and a pick me up. Hope this helps anyone else considering.

Re: Caffeine suppresses cerebral grey matter responses to chronic sleep restriction

#120

Post by taeric » Mon, Jul 22, 2024, 4:42 PM UTC

I am growingly convinced that coffee/caffeine hit people in very different ways. https://www.23andme.com/topics/wellness/caffeine-consumption... has a few fun citations to look through on this, but discussions of how varied we are with how it impacts us is ridiculously invisible in most discussions of it.

Sleep is similar. We speak of "night owls" and such, but most discussion around the varied needs of sleep are age targeted. With most discussion on how we should let kids sleep longer.