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Physicist, 98, honoured with doctorate 75 years after groundbreaking discovery

theguardian.com

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Re: Physicist, 98, honoured with doctorate 75 years after groundbreaking discovery

#31

Post by behnamoh »

KeplerBoy wrote: post #24
teeheelol wrote: post #5

Every person I know with a PhD now in their 40s and 50s (7 people) doesn’t have a family and wished they did and didn’t have a PhD. I’d love to see a study on that. I’m never bothered because it looked like too much effort for little money.

I don't see how going for a PhD limits one's family life. Sure one could earn more money for less work in the industry, but being a PhD student is still a rather cushy job earning decent money compared to a lot of physical jobs out there. Also nobody cares at which time of the day/week you do your work, which is nice in times where other jobs might prefer to have your ass in an office.

> I don't see how going for a PhD limits one's family life.

Only one way to find out! It limits your family/friends/sex/fun life because the work load is a lot, there are no official "work hours" (so you end up working on weekends, at nights, when others are sleeping, when others go to parties, etc.), you get paid less than people who work in industry even though your work is as difficult (if not more) than theirs (think about the ML stuff Ph.D.s do vs. engineers in companies), you still have to deal with shitty politics in the department, etc.

Re: Physicist, 98, honoured with doctorate 75 years after groundbreaking discovery

#32

Post by latexr »

behnamoh wrote: post #28
glitchc wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the danger of anecdotes, they can lead to bias. I have a PhD and I had my first child at 28. Almost all of my colleagues have families and children, except for the one person who was unable to attract a suitable mate (and not for lack of trying). Sometimes very bright people have trouble attracting an equivalent person. The pool is that much smaller and other factors (socioeconomic, culture) still play a role…

> This is the danger of anecdotes, they can lead to bias. Your own story is also a dangerous anecdote. Without the context, it's pointless to talk about how amazing your Ph.D. experience was. Study engineering or quantitative marketing? Most likely miserable. Study humanities? Probably happier.

> Your own story is also a dangerous anecdote.

I don’t think the person you’re replying to is implying their anecdotes are more valid, but that all anecdotes can be contradicted by opposing anecdotes and thus aren’t enough to make sweeping statements.

Re: Physicist, 98, honoured with doctorate 75 years after groundbreaking discovery

#33

Post by IncRnd »

teeheelol wrote: post #5

Every person I know with a PhD now in their 40s and 50s (7 people) doesn’t have a family and wished they did and didn’t have a PhD. I’d love to see a study on that. I’m never bothered because it looked like too much effort for little money.

As the saying goes, "the grass is always greener on the other side of the fence."

If those people had not gotten their PhDs, but families instead, they very well might today desire PhDs.

Re: Physicist, 98, honoured with doctorate 75 years after groundbreaking discovery

#34

Post by evoloution »

teeheelol wrote: post #5

Every person I know with a PhD now in their 40s and 50s (7 people) doesn’t have a family and wished they did and didn’t have a PhD. I’d love to see a study on that. I’m never bothered because it looked like too much effort for little money.

There is a joke among scientists that choosing the career path will cost you your firstborn. It would be nice to quantify this but it is hard to. Anecdotally, main issue is financial stability so people with wealthy backgrounds or supportive (by time investment) families have a much easier time navigating this. I would be surprised if someone did the study and didn't find a delay till first-born child born when compared to similar people (SES background, abilities, etc) that went down the business/finance route. Edit:typo

Re: Physicist, 98, honoured with doctorate 75 years after groundbreaking discovery

#36

Post by dekhn »

teeheelol wrote: post #5

Every person I know with a PhD now in their 40s and 50s (7 people) doesn’t have a family and wished they did and didn’t have a PhD. I’d love to see a study on that. I’m never bothered because it looked like too much effort for little money.

This doesn't match my observations. Both when I was in academia and now in industry, I see lots and lots of PhDs with kids (often dual-PhD families). It would have been a lot more challenging if I'd stayed in academia (I live in the pricey Bay Area).

Re: Physicist, 98, honoured with doctorate 75 years after groundbreaking discovery

#37

Post by KeplerBoy »

behnamoh wrote: post #31
KeplerBoy wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how going for a PhD limits one's family life. Sure one could earn more money for less work in the industry, but being a PhD student is still a rather cushy job earning decent money compared to a lot of physical jobs out there. Also nobody cares at which time of the day/week you do your work, which is nice in times where other jobs might prefer to have your ass in an office.

> I don't see how going for a PhD limits one's family life. Only one way to find out! It limits your family/friends/sex/fun life because the work load is a lot, there are no official "work hours" (so you end up working on weekends, at nights, when others are sleeping, when others go to parties, etc.), you get paid less than people who work in industry even though your work is as difficult (if not more) than theirs (t…

yeah, I'm on the verge of finding out. Got an offer, but damn it's a big decision to make.

Having supporting parents around to help with childcare (no kids yet, but 4 years is a long time) and financials is a big plus. Also being in Europe where the job market looks dire and industry only pay like 20% more is a major draw towards the PhD.

Re: Physicist, 98, honoured with doctorate 75 years after groundbreaking discovery

#38

Post by rsynnott »

teeheelol wrote: post #5

Every person I know with a PhD now in their 40s and 50s (7 people) doesn’t have a family and wished they did and didn’t have a PhD. I’d love to see a study on that. I’m never bothered because it looked like too much effort for little money.

Fairly small sample group; if we're doing anecdata, I think more of my be-phd-d friends have kids than the non-phd ones.

Re: Physicist, 98, honoured with doctorate 75 years after groundbreaking discovery

#39

Post by simplicio »

teeheelol wrote: post #5

Every person I know with a PhD now in their 40s and 50s (7 people) doesn’t have a family and wished they did and didn’t have a PhD. I’d love to see a study on that. I’m never bothered because it looked like too much effort for little money.

FWIW, I finished a physics PhD 15 or so years ago, and 2/3rds or so of the people in the program with me have are married, and most of those couples have children.

There are certainly challenges to having a family while pursing a PhD, but they're not prohibitive, and there are advantages as well (flexible work schedule, Universities often have a lot of programs for employees with children).

Re: Physicist, 98, honoured with doctorate 75 years after groundbreaking discovery

#40

Post by kgwgk »

latexr wrote: post #30
teeheelol wrote: post #5

Every person I know with a PhD now in their 40s and 50s (7 people) doesn’t have a family and wished they did and didn’t have a PhD. I’d love to see a study on that. I’m never bothered because it looked like too much effort for little money.

> I’m never bothered because it looked like too much effort for little money. Having a PhD or a family? Because I could see that applied to either. Money and effort are not the only metrics that matter.

The family would be too much effort for negative money.
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