Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Caffeine suppresses cerebral grey matter responses to chronic sleep restriction

nature.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 236 posts

Re: Caffeine suppresses cerebral grey matter responses to chronic sleep restriction

#51

Post by lolinder »

nikanj wrote: post #44
ilaksh wrote: post #30

I love my caffeine. But caffeine is an addictive, highly profitable substance. So advertising it and trying to promote it as somehow having real health benefits is widespread. I would not be surprised if routine consumption of caffeine was at least mildly detrimental to health. I think some drugs have managed to gain a special place in our society . Advertising and lobbying warps our perception of these drugs. I even…

People do joke about being dangerous without their morning coffee, but I have yet to see a coffee addict breaking into vehicles to score their morning fix. Also I have never had to worry someone is going to mug my loved ones to get some quick cash for a double-double. And have you ever heard of someone who skips important appointments because they stayed out getting high on caffeine instead Pretending caffeine is as…

> Pretending caffeine is as detrimental to our society as e.g. fentanyl is prime intellectual dishonesty.

These are your words, not OP's. OP isn't claiming that caffeine is as bad as any other drug. They're claiming that it, like other drugs, is likely to have negative health effects that outweigh positive ones and that it's interesting that it gets a special place in our culture while other drugs get banned and shunned.

Nothing in that claim says that caffeine is as bad as the worst illegal drugs.

Re: Caffeine suppresses cerebral grey matter responses to chronic sleep restriction

#52

Post by BossingAround »

themaninthedark wrote: post #45
BossingAround wrote: post #16

Anyone with anxiety or sleep issues should reexamine their caffeine usage. Maybe those problems do not stem from caffeine, but maybe they do. I don't know many people that do not consume caffeine regularly, at least once a day - in such cases, you cannot know whether your anxiety, sleep problems, general tiredness, bad moods, ... are or are not caused by one's caffeine consumption. Some people swear by drinking a sho…

What about those of use who may or may not have ADD and have been using caffine to regulate our mood and focus.... I honestly can't tell at this point if the coffee is helping me focus and I have ADD or if I am just lazy(or depressed) and the coffee is helping get me motivated.

Isn't it better to find out? I.e. first to stop with the caffeine, then wait until your body readjusts (e.g. a month or two), and possibly get diagnosed by a professional in case you do feel like you need help? Diagnosis doesn't necessarily mean prescription stimulant drugs.

I was using caffeine to mask my burnout. Needless to say, it only exacerbated the total feeling of burnout, and "helped" only short-term. It took me a long time to get out of the burnout, and I'm still feeling the effects. It would have been much healthier to not mask the burnout, but deal with it right there and then.

Re: Caffeine suppresses cerebral grey matter responses to chronic sleep restriction

#53

Post by kkielhofner »

ilaksh wrote: post #30

I love my caffeine. But caffeine is an addictive, highly profitable substance. So advertising it and trying to promote it as somehow having real health benefits is widespread. I would not be surprised if routine consumption of caffeine was at least mildly detrimental to health. I think some drugs have managed to gain a special place in our society . Advertising and lobbying warps our perception of these drugs. I even…

> highly profitable substance

Yes and no. I've been a fan of caffeine pills for years. They are very cheap, readily available (portable), and most importantly to me offer completely consistent dosing. With caffeine pills I'm able to ensure I stay below the FDA recommended maximum daily intake of 400 mg (worst case). Another fun bonus - when a physician asks you what your caffeine intake is and you respond in milligrams they look at you funny.

Otherwise I completely agree with you. Every time I'm at an airport, etc I marvel at how many caffeine addicts are standing in line at Starbucks for however long ready to drop $10 (or whatever it costs) for a beverage with a completely unknown and highly variable dose of what is fundamentally a drug. Doubly so for variations that have other negative things like adulterations and calories.

Caffeine is a drug and should be treated as such. If you were taking any other drug (over the counter or RX) would anyone tolerate "today it's 100 mg, tomorrow it's 400 mg"?

Re: Caffeine suppresses cerebral grey matter responses to chronic sleep restriction

#54

Post by BossingAround »

mensetmanusman wrote: post #32
ilaksh wrote: post #30

I love my caffeine. But caffeine is an addictive, highly profitable substance. So advertising it and trying to promote it as somehow having real health benefits is widespread. I would not be surprised if routine consumption of caffeine was at least mildly detrimental to health. I think some drugs have managed to gain a special place in our society . Advertising and lobbying warps our perception of these drugs. I even…

Alcohol reduces functions, caffeine clearly enhances functions. If caffeine was involved in nearly all violent crime like alcohol is, we would think differently of it.

Caffeine doesn't enhance any function, it simply masks tiredness in the short term, at the cost of reduced quality of sleep.

The question is, does caffeine "clearly enhance" cognitive functions long-term.

Re: Caffeine suppresses cerebral grey matter responses to chronic sleep restriction

#55

Post by BossingAround »

roywiggins wrote: post #27
janpmz wrote: post #17

Recently I've learned that half of the people are slow caffein metabolizers. The caffein stays longer in their system and it might negatively affect their sleep. Considering how many people drink coffee, I think a lot of people are affected by this.

I suspect I am an unusually fast metabolizer, since I can be tipped over into very nasty withdrawal headaches extremely easily, even when my baseline consumption is a couple of smallish coffees in a day. The only way I've found to fix this is to get almost completely off it, which as you might imagine I find very difficult to do, since I have to step down very carefully.

Sounds to me more like you consume _a lot_ (therefore have a very strong physical dependence) rather than having extremely fast metabolism.

Alternatively, you might be prone to migraines, and thus are sensitive to headaches of all kinds. That's me, I truly hope that's not you (wouldn't wish that upon anyone).

Re: Caffeine suppresses cerebral grey matter responses to chronic sleep restriction

#56

Post by azinman2 »

hereme888 wrote: post #33

Caffeine, up to a certain daily dose, is associated with long-term cognitive benefits and a reduced risk of dementia. This study hints that it specifically doesn't benefit gray matter volume during periods of sleep restriction, at least in the short term. I wonder if substances like Ashwagandha extract or Magnesium L-threonate could mitigate gray matter loss during short term sleep restriction among caffeine drinkers…

Ashwagandha extract Can only be safely taken up to 3 months. It’s not a long term benefit. Magnesium affects your heart’s signaling, which can be problematic if too much.

I’m curious why you asked about Ashwagandha ahd magnesium? They seem to be THE supplements du jour, which is a pretty weird concept. There is a lot of grift going on, and little recognition of the potential negative health impacts of both.

Re: Caffeine suppresses cerebral grey matter responses to chronic sleep restriction

#57

Post by austin-cheney »

hnthrowaway0328 wrote: post #50
austin-cheney wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All stimulants enhance some functions to some degree, so that is a poor metric of value. Cocaine, for example, temporarily boosts intelligence, but consuming cocaine is not recommended.

I heard investment bankers rely on it from the 90s. How addictive it is?

Cocaine is less addictive than sugar and opium, but it is still considered highly addictive. I don't know how addictive.

Re: Caffeine suppresses cerebral grey matter responses to chronic sleep restriction

#58

Post by roywiggins »

BossingAround wrote: post #55
roywiggins wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect I am an unusually fast metabolizer, since I can be tipped over into very nasty withdrawal headaches extremely easily, even when my baseline consumption is a couple of smallish coffees in a day. The only way I've found to fix this is to get almost completely off it, which as you might imagine I find very difficult to do, since I have to step down very carefully.

Sounds to me more like you consume _a lot_ (therefore have a very strong physical dependence) rather than having extremely fast metabolism. Alternatively, you might be prone to migraines, and thus are sensitive to headaches of all kinds. That's me, I truly hope that's not you (wouldn't wish that upon anyone).

I promise I don't. I can be on a teaspoon of strongish instant coffee twice a day and it still happens sometimes (though it's worse when I'm drinking more of course). It can happen literally overnight, even when I'm on a steady intake.

The headaches are reliably cured within maybe 20-40 minutes by application of more caffeine, so I don't think they are migraines.

Re: Caffeine suppresses cerebral grey matter responses to chronic sleep restriction

#59

Post by eightysixfour »

austin-cheney wrote: post #48
eightysixfour wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does cocaine temporarily boost intelligence? I thought it boosted the feeling of being intelligent.

It does. Intelligence is the capacity for learning potential and cocaine boosts the ability to retain and process learned sensory matter, even when sleepy. That is really the greatest appeal of that drug. Again, I strongly do not recommend reliance on any stimulants, especially powerful ones like cocaine.

Interesting can you cite a source?

I found this: https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/2096405/ which shows a consistent improvement in tests, but the performance increase was only 4%. I'd be willing to guess that the improvement would be higher when sleepy/fatigued (up to a point!) since it would increase the alertness of the user, but I have never seen anything that suggests cocaine boosts the ability to retain information.

Re: Caffeine suppresses cerebral grey matter responses to chronic sleep restriction

#60

Post by pcai »

BossingAround wrote: post #54
mensetmanusman wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Alcohol reduces functions, caffeine clearly enhances functions. If caffeine was involved in nearly all violent crime like alcohol is, we would think differently of it.

Caffeine doesn't enhance any function, it simply masks tiredness in the short term, at the cost of reduced quality of sleep. The question is, does caffeine "clearly enhance" cognitive functions long-term.

Actually caffeine is a well known and widely studied performance enhancing drug, for example in endurance sports
Post reply on HN