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Reversal of autism symptoms among dizygotic twins: A case report

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: Reversal of autism symptoms among dizygotic twins: A case report

#41

Post by dbspin »

Jacky4Chan wrote: post #37
ImaCake wrote: post #22

This is a terrible headline for an already over-editoralised paper. The entire study revolves around 2 people (twins) and thus no statistics can be performed. Statistics is careful to prune away hypothesises but I am happy to state that this paper is wrong based on its lack of care and shitty title. The description suggests ABA therapy + diet. ABA therapy does in fact improve the percieved symptoms of autism, but it…

You have statistics even if 2 people. The probability of the result matters, if you have n=1 and cure cancer it would be incredibly stupid of you to claim it proves nothing.

You're accidentally providing a great counter example to your own argument. Cancer is not one disease but thousands - with complex multi-factorial causes, progress and prognosis. 'Curing' cancer in one patient with a novel treatment would be an interesting data point. 'Proving' the cure was due to a given intervention (rather than say experimenter error, spontaneous or temporary remission, or the body fighting off the cancer itself) is a completely different order of problem. Generalising that treatment to other patients, testing its safety and then mass producing distributing it would be a multi-year perhaps decade long process. Inevitably, the high variance in types of cancer and responses to treatment would result in an efficacy significantly lower than 100% (I hope my understatement is clear here).

In this case ABA treatment is already well known, and there is significant experimental research into it's efficacy. It's demonstrably not effective in 'curing' austism in most people and has measured, known 'side effects' including anxiety, depression, or other mental health problems.

Re: Reversal of autism symptoms among dizygotic twins: A case report

#42

Post by netdevnet »

jhugo wrote: post #20
thih9 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E.g. the paper talks about autism symptoms, the sensationalized headline mentions just autism.

What is autism if not a collection of symptoms?

Think viral infection and high body temperature. Not the same

Re: Reversal of autism symptoms among dizygotic twins: A case report

#43

Post by nradov »

aitchnyu wrote: post #18
nyc111 wrote: post #3

"The twins underwent behavioural analysis, speech therapy and a strict gluten-free diet and nutrition programme as part of the trial to reduce inflammation." "The diet was casein-free, a protein found in milk; low-sugar; had no artificial colours or dyes; zero ultra-processed foods; primarily organic; and locally sourced." Once again, this shows how important a balanced microbiome is for good lealth.

How do I learn the principles of the ideal diet? I'm a 35 year old Indian following traditional diet but with much less rice and more pulses/beans with organic ingredients (if they are are not lying).

An "ideal" diet will maintain energy balance, avoid high doses of certain toxins, and include sufficient essential amino acids, fiber, and micronutrients. Beyond those basics there is no such thing as an ideal diet once you get into specifics. We simply don't know, and most human nutrition research is junk science barely worth publishing. Anyone who claims they know what is ideal is simply ignorant or trying to sell you something.

As a practical matter, if you really care about optimizing your own diet then conduct your own n=1 experiments by adding or removing certain foods. Do you feel better? How do your blood sugar levels change? Does your athletic performance improve? This isn't really scientific but good enough for most people.

Re: Reversal of autism symptoms among dizygotic twins: A case report

#44

Post by benterix »

contravariant wrote: post #35
raducu wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know from various empirical sources that ABA works way better than the alternatives. But how about the gay conversion therapy? Can anybody do any real science on that or any scientist that would touch the topic would have to say goodbye to his career?

Any real science is probably out of the question, but is that really that unusual? Plenty of subjects are impossible to research for ethical reasons. I think some data on hypothermia is still only known because of some of the terrible things nazis did.

Why in this case though? I imagine someone who is gay may at some point feel they are unhappy with that and see if there are any options for them. If, for political reasons, we treat the whole subject as taboo, it's basically failing vulnerable people who might need help.

Re: Reversal of autism symptoms among dizygotic twins: A case report

#45

Post by snotrockets »

jhugo wrote: post #23
nyc111 wrote: post #3

"The twins underwent behavioural analysis, speech therapy and a strict gluten-free diet and nutrition programme as part of the trial to reduce inflammation." "The diet was casein-free, a protein found in milk; low-sugar; had no artificial colours or dyes; zero ultra-processed foods; primarily organic; and locally sourced." Once again, this shows how important a balanced microbiome is for good lealth.

Do we have good evidence for the things that they avoided being harmful to one’s microbiome? Especially the organic and locally sourced part I would think is very unlikely to have good evidence.

Of course not. It’s a (bad) case study, not research paper.

Re: Reversal of autism symptoms among dizygotic twins: A case report

#46

Post by contravariant »

benterix wrote: post #44
contravariant wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any real science is probably out of the question, but is that really that unusual? Plenty of subjects are impossible to research for ethical reasons. I think some data on hypothermia is still only known because of some of the terrible things nazis did.

Why in this case though? I imagine someone who is gay may at some point feel they are unhappy with that and see if there are any options for them. If, for political reasons, we treat the whole subject as taboo, it's basically failing vulnerable people who might need help.

That's a lot of hypotheticals, and frankly that situation is not too unusual in medicine. They take first do no harm quite seriously.

Heck we could have gathered quite a lot of very important and useful data by deliberately infecting a few thousand people with Covid, or even just placing them at risk. To my knowledge none of the obvious experiments on the infectiousness of Covid or the effect of countermeasures happened.

Re: Reversal of autism symptoms among dizygotic twins: A case report

#47

Post by incomingpain »

I expect this to stay flagged but this article is partially my fault. It's completely true and not editorialized.

>The diet was casein-free, a protein found in milk; low-sugar; had no artificial colours or dyes; zero ultra-processed foods; primarily organic; and locally sourced

Aspergers can essentially be reversed. Level 2 and 3 can dramatically be reduced.

The thing that really upsets me, the anti-autism/adhd discrimination continues.

Re: Reversal of autism symptoms among dizygotic twins: A case report

#48

Post by JohnBooty »

ddmf wrote: post #28
ImaCake wrote: post #22

This is a terrible headline for an already over-editoralised paper. The entire study revolves around 2 people (twins) and thus no statistics can be performed. Statistics is careful to prune away hypothesises but I am happy to state that this paper is wrong based on its lack of care and shitty title. The description suggests ABA therapy + diet. ABA therapy does in fact improve the percieved symptoms of autism, but it…

ABA is based on the same underlying research that gay conversion therapy uses.

Wow, this is a big statement. Can you explain further?

Specifically: is the technique itself cruel or otherwise unethical? Or is gay conversion therapy an unethical application of an otherwise ethical treatment?

I could (and am) googling this, but as with any topic there's a lot of poisoned and contradictory information...

Re: Reversal of autism symptoms among dizygotic twins: A case report

#49

Post by orwin »

jhugo wrote: post #20
thih9 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

E.g. the paper talks about autism symptoms, the sensationalized headline mentions just autism.

What is autism if not a collection of symptoms?

It's not that. Your brain function differently.

My biggest symptom as a kid was a difficulty to lie (white lie or otherwise) when asked directly about something. I did a year of therapy to learn that, and how I should learn it. The fact that I can now say 'what a beautiful dress' and not 'I guess it's okay, I don't really care' was directly taught, as do a lot of social stuff non-autistic people learn by mimetism. And now, I do learn by mimetism, I'm just proactive and conscious about it, I replay in my mind how charismatic people do stuff, and decide if I want to emulate them or not, then try to. That, masking and being conscious about my rabbit holes make social situations with 5+ person really tiree, really fast, but tiredness is my only symptom left.

Re: Reversal of autism symptoms among dizygotic twins: A case report

#50

Post by benterix »

contravariant wrote: post #46
benterix wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why in this case though? I imagine someone who is gay may at some point feel they are unhappy with that and see if there are any options for them. If, for political reasons, we treat the whole subject as taboo, it's basically failing vulnerable people who might need help.

That's a lot of hypotheticals, and frankly that situation is not too unusual in medicine. They take first do no harm quite seriously. Heck we could have gathered quite a lot of very important and useful data by deliberately infecting a few thousand people with Covid, or even just placing them at risk. To my knowledge none of the obvious experiments on the infectiousness of Covid or the effect of countermeasures happe…

I see your point. But I sometimes wonder how much harm we actually do by being afraid to confront the current political opinions.

I believe at least in the UK, after the Tavistock scandal, people started asking questions. I mean, you mention taking do no harm seriously, and at the same time doctors give children puberty blockers sometimes after just two visits, knowing it will negatively impact their physical health (bone density, growth, and many others), to move almost all kids on to hormones - in spite of the fact that the study they themselves published shows there are no improvements in their mental health. And people who decided to start asking questions faced a lot of negativity, just for trying to understand how things really are.

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