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Civ II game a decade old

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Re: Civ II game a decade old

#81

Post by troels »

bdunbar wrote: post #70
jonnathanson wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"This is why I don't play civ. Total war AIs are a bizarre choice in a strategy game. I dislike it when games are setup in a way where I'm the only one thinking strategy and the AI opponents are there to give me a sense of action. Total war in the real world is rare." Agreed 100%. To me, it seems silly -- not to mention cynical and fatalistic -- that the sole purpose of diplomacy in Civilization games is to add a str…

Agreed 100%. To me, it seems silly -- not to mention cynical and fatalistic -- that the sole purpose of diplomacy in Civilization games is to add a strategic dimension to warmaking. Out here in the real world, war is a continuation of politics, by other means. Same thing, really, as your description of Civ II. The goal of diplomacy/warmaking is for one's side to come out ahead of the other. See Clausewitz, Machiavell…

I hope we've come at least a bit further since the renaissance. Diplomacy doesn't have to be a zero-sum game - indeed it rarely is in the real world. War, on the other hand, is very much that. So in that respect, war is the failure of diplomacy, not the continuation of it.

Re: Civ II game a decade old

#82

Post by skylan_q »

waterhouse wrote: post #37
CharlieA wrote: post #5

The 3-way division of the world into "super-continents" and the constant war keeping the populace in a perpetual state of starvation and poverty, with the entire world in disrepair is so incredibly reminiscent of Orwell's 1984 it's scary. If you haven't read 1984, it's a startlingly bleak view of a potential future (from a historical perspective, but still applicable today, I think) particularly through technology an…

> populace in a perpetual state of starvation and poverty, with the entire world in disrepair This is quite different from my experience. In most of my Civ II games, I produce hordes of engineers, which I use to terraform the hell out of the planet--getting railroads everywhere, irrigation and farmland on all plains and grassland, mining on all hills, turning mountains into hills and swamp and jungle into forest, and…

Played correctly, democracy is the best government in all cases!

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=87937

Re: Civ II game a decade old

#83

Post by shriphani »

orbitingpluto wrote: post #53

This post illustrates why turn based games rule for richness and complexity. There is nothing so satisfying as finding stable points in gameplay. This one Reddit post will probably waste thousands of what could be productive hours... I am sorely tempted to play Civ3 or GalCivII:TotA today.

I have sunk several hours of my life into Civ5 (and played very few multiplayer games).

The thing about the series is that I can sit, build a large empire and take my time. In every non-turn based game (AOE) etc, everyone rushkills and shoots for metrics like FC (fastest castle) etc. without building a lasting empire. The civ series allows me to truly enjoy this aspect of the game.

OTOH, in Civ5 I have found the battles sorely lacking (the AI is not clever and artillery can do some very solid damage) so I feel cheated a bit. I still haven't found a game that combines the elements of Civ5 I like and also demands a good battle strategy.

Re: Civ II game a decade old

#84

Post by zokier »

wtracy wrote: post #57
zokier wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have played very little Civ2 (my Civ career began with Civ3), but doesn't FreeCiv have a ruleset that aligns with Civ2 very closely?

FreeCiv has diverged quite a bit from Civ 2 by now.

Main ruleset yes, but FreeCiv has separate civ2 ruleset which should closer to Civ 2.

Re: Civ II game a decade old

#85

Post by zokier »

nik_0_0 wrote: post #62
zokier wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Brave New World definately is a good pair for 1984. http://www.totalitariers.nl/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Brave... (yes, the message of that image is debatable, but i found it intresting anyways)

I've read these types of posts hundreds of times, and they never seem truthful, but here is mine: I just want to say thank you for that image. I would like to hear your thoughts on your note, why do you find the message is debatable, and if you know where the image is from? It says the text is from "Amusing Ourselves to Death" which has just made it to #1 on my to-read list. I found the apt summary of Huxley's points…

I'm sorry but I don't know the original source of the image, it is one of those which just circulate on the internet. It has a web address at the bottom though, maybe it would give hints of its origin.

I feel that that image dismisses Orwells vision too easily, and attempts to make the situation seem more black&white than it actually is. As iuguy noted, the real world seems to be a blend of both, a viewpoint that the image ignores.

Re: Civ II game a decade old

#86

Post by pooriaazimi »

pacaro wrote: post #65
pooriaazimi wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't read anything in this thread yet, but my eye caught 1984 and wanted to second your recommendation. Brave New World is without a doubt, one of the best books I've ever read. Hard to believe it was written 80 years ago. I like to listen to audiobooks (when commuting), and BNW's audiobook (produced by BBC) was also great: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0012QED5Y

In the same vein, "This Perfect Day" by Ira Levin should be mentioned in the same breath... http://www.amazon.com/This-Perfect-Day-A-Novel/dp/160598129X...

Looks perfect, thank you. I got its audio-book and will listen to it!

And I noticed she (Ira Levin) had written "Rosemary's Baby" - I had no idea the movie was an adaption! http://www.amazon.com/Rosemarys-Baby-Ira-Levin/dp/1605981109

Re: Civ II game a decade old

#87

Post by pacaro »

pooriaazimi wrote: post #86
pacaro wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the same vein, "This Perfect Day" by Ira Levin should be mentioned in the same breath... http://www.amazon.com/This-Perfect-Day-A-Novel/dp/160598129X...

Looks perfect , thank you. I got its audio-book and will listen to it! And I noticed she (Ira Levin) had written "Rosemary's Baby" - I had no idea the movie was an adaption! http://www.amazon.com/Rosemarys-Baby-Ira-Levin/dp/1605981109

Every single Ira Levin novel [1] except This Perfect Day has been made into a movie...

IIRC this instance of an Ira is a "he" not a "she"

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ira_Levin#Novels

Re: Civ II game a decade old

#88

Post by maayank »

honestcoyote wrote: post #69
Quarrelsome wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Civ games have never been known for their stellar AI. The way they keep the AI competitive at higher levels is to brutally cheat by getting free techs and units at the start and a beneficial modifier to their production and research. Considering how quick the AI needs to run (you don't want "end turn" taking forever) and how complex the game is I can appreciate its simplicity, it is disappointing though. I have…

GalCiv2, with the expansions, has a very good AI and one which isn't entirely focused on total war. There are options to dedicate more CPU time to the AI to increase the difficulty. It's possibly the best AI I've seen for 4x games.

Was about to mention GalCiv2 as well. Stellar AI. I once read a blog post by Brad Wardell (of Stardock) where he mentioned he only added gameplay features once he thought through how the AI can use them properly.

Also, if you're tired of the more mainstream turn based strategy games, I'd recommend something like Hearts of Iron 3 or Europa Universalis 3.

Re: Civ II game a decade old

#89

Post by Evbn »

danielweber wrote: post #61
jonnathanson wrote: post #52

Fascinating, and wonderful to see others are out there who are weird like me, and who will actually attempt to extend Civilization games over extremely long periods. I have a Civ4 game that I've been playing for about 4 straight years now, and admittedly the file has gotten so big that it periodically taxes my system resources to their limits (Unfortunately, Civ4 suffers from poor memory management and is fairly leak…

I don't know Civ4's AI routines, but it might be such that after a certain year passes, it decides that the only way to stop the human player is total war. Before that it can be less aggressive. I have a game of Civ1 somewhere where it takes about a half-hour to get through each turn because each city demands attention. I'd love to modify the ROM to skip the animations.

There is an option to turn off animations.

Re: Civ II game a decade old

#90

Post by qznc »

cantankerous wrote: post #76
bstar77 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not really interested in how he could have handled things to have a better outcome... What I do find extremely interesting is that he's in a particular situation that he can't get out of that's just a horrible cycle of death and destruction. And it seems to draw some eery parallels with real life.

The issue the parent points out is that the situation that the game player has worked himself in is most likely artificial. It's really, really easy to keep your land squeaky clean and productive in Civ 2. If you've played to year 4000 and haven't won yet and your land is trashed, it's because you wanted things to turn out that way.

In this particular case the player has won. He just continued an ended up in this Orwellian scenario.
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