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Multisatellite data depicts a record-breaking methane leak from a well blowout

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Re: Multisatellite data depicts a record-breaking methane leak from a well blowout

#141

Post by itronitron »

redserk wrote: post #32
darkteflon wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even close. https://jonathanfranzen.com/what-if-we-stopped-pretending/

The article was written in 2019 before a number of extraordinarily significant events with major climate policy impacts: - a noticeable and rapid dip in emissions has proven to be viable due to COVID lockdowns - Russia’s invasion of Ukraine forced Europe and the US to accelerate plans to diversify energy generation away from natural gas - China’s insanely rapid growth in green energy production domestically It seems…

>> a noticeable and rapid dip in emissions has proven to be viable due to COVID lockdowns

funny how that never gets brought up in articles about RTO mandates

Re: Multisatellite data depicts a record-breaking methane leak from a well blowout

#142

Post by [deleted] »

geysersam wrote: post #129
glenstein wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>China and India emit significantly less CO2 per capita Which would be great if CO2's heat trapping properties depended on the per capita emissions of their nation of origin. Unfortunately CO2 molecules don't know where they came from and can't adjust their heat trapping properties accordingly, and instead it's about absolute amounts as ppm of the atmosphere. But there's a silver lining for China and India - which is…

Just no. In terms of bang for buck it's easier to reduce emissions in rich countries with high emissions per capita. Unless by "buck" you mean the number of decisions that need to be made, but that's hardly the limiting factor. Country sizes are arbitrary. With your logic if China was to split into a bunch of smaller nations their emissions wouldn't matter any more? Per-capita emissions is the only reasonable way to…

[deleted]

Re: Multisatellite data depicts a record-breaking methane leak from a well blowout

#143

Post by pnut »

zo1 wrote: post #136
bamboozled wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to believe he is doing this. It's absolutely nonsensical, I think Elon really is having mental health issues. Either that, or everything he has said about being "pro human" was a lie. Which isn't hard to believe either.

I'm sure he has his motivations that he has internally justified and made sense of. Saying he has mental health issues because he supports Donald Trump because somehow Trump is pro oil and that'll massively hurt the EV industry sounds like a huge stretch, be honest. Even a casual reading of Elon a lot of us squint and make the conclusion that he supports Trump because he thinks it's what your country needs, heck like…

US republicans and democrats have largely the same policies except for social wedge issues.

My bet is that Elon knows Trump is pliable if you come with an open checkbook, so there's real opportunity to advance your business interests if he's president.

Re: Multisatellite data depicts a record-breaking methane leak from a well blowout

#144

Post by blueflow »

redserk wrote: post #32
darkteflon wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even close. https://jonathanfranzen.com/what-if-we-stopped-pretending/

The article was written in 2019 before a number of extraordinarily significant events with major climate policy impacts: - a noticeable and rapid dip in emissions has proven to be viable due to COVID lockdowns - Russia’s invasion of Ukraine forced Europe and the US to accelerate plans to diversify energy generation away from natural gas - China’s insanely rapid growth in green energy production domestically It seems…

The emissions, not the level. The level is increasing at the level of emissions (minus absorptions). We are accelerating as fast as 2019 towards the wall.

Re: Multisatellite data depicts a record-breaking methane leak from a well blowout

#145

Post by netsharc »

throwaway290 wrote: post #117
h0l0cube wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not when you adjust for trade: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/consumption-co2-per-capit...

Why do you discount export emissions? Is it forced on them against their will or they don't profit from it? Shall we also adjust for things like how much of their emissions could have been green, etc?

I'm not the same commenter as above, but, why not? In the extreme hypothetical scenario, a country could be net-zero and have the newest iPhone every year, throw away their good PCs because Windows 11 needs a modern one with TPM 2.0, fast fashion, and steak for dinner every night, because everything's produced in the neighboring country. And then when the world says "We need to be better about our carbon output", your argument is like the country of Netzeroland saying "Well don't blame me, I'm net zero on CO2, blame Neighboristan over there! I don't need to change, they need to change!", when in fact its people also need to change their consumption habits.

Whether it's forced, it seems like a philosophical question about economics. Do you go to work willingly, or because you're forced to, because you want to be able to afford food, housing, and iPhone 17?

Or it's a tragedy of the commons scenario. If there's demand, and Neighboristan is able to but doesn't supply it, their citizens are forced by government to give up sources of income; meanwhile the citizens of We-Also-Build-iPhones-And-Make-Cheap-Shirts-ia are raking the money in and travelling around the world and taking selfies of their steak meals with their iPhones, and citizens of Neighboristan will get jealous and think "Why can't we do that?". And they'll either vote in a government that will allow this, or revolt.

And consumers in the West enable this behavior by wanting the cheapest bang for the buck. If China charges for CO2, your cheap Walmart toy gets more expensive, and you don't buy it, Walmart will say "we'll find a supplier in Vietnam/India/etc where there's no such CO2 fees."...

Re: Multisatellite data depicts a record-breaking methane leak from a well blowout

#146

Post by Brigand »

geysersam wrote: post #128
marcosdumay wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But we are committed now to living in a world that will be radically different and less pleasant for a lot of people. Committed? We will have extra energy for carbon capture on the next decade. This is a problem we can solve. Not before it gets worse, but we can stop it from being permanent.

Stop living in a fantasy. Direct air carbon capture can never be more efficient than just not burning fossile fuels in the first place.

Having excess energy from solar could make it possible to capture the excess co2 over time.

Re: Multisatellite data depicts a record-breaking methane leak from a well blowout

#147

Post by FeepingCreature »

geysersam wrote: post #128
marcosdumay wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But we are committed now to living in a world that will be radically different and less pleasant for a lot of people. Committed? We will have extra energy for carbon capture on the next decade. This is a problem we can solve. Not before it gets worse, but we can stop it from being permanent.

Stop living in a fantasy. Direct air carbon capture can never be more efficient than just not burning fossile fuels in the first place.

Sure it can. Why wouldn't it? Say you find a source of energy with zero cost. Now direct air carbon capture is free. "But you don't have a source with zero cost." Great, now we're talking numbers, how cheap does it have to be? So long as energy transport has inevitable losses, carbon capture stands a chance. In other words, IMO we should consider fossil fuel offsetting with carbon capture as a highly lossy energy transport technology that can reach any fossil fuel consumer on earth.

Re: Multisatellite data depicts a record-breaking methane leak from a well blowout

#148

Post by FeepingCreature »

potsandpans wrote: post #65
redserk wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article was written in 2019 before a number of extraordinarily significant events with major climate policy impacts: - a noticeable and rapid dip in emissions has proven to be viable due to COVID lockdowns - Russia’s invasion of Ukraine forced Europe and the US to accelerate plans to diversify energy generation away from natural gas - China’s insanely rapid growth in green energy production domestically It seems…

This data is good for cognitive behavioral therapy and not much else. In that, the world is certainly not going to end, and maybe it's helpful to look at some data that trends positive in order to inspire hope. But we are committed now to living in a world that will be radically different and less pleasant for a lot of people. How fast these trends improve will determine the scope and magnitude of degraded pleasentne…

> Probably one of the only short term options between now and 2100 will be solar radiation management -- a largely untested tech that is surely a terrible outcome.

Maybe it's time to put a billion or two into testing all these untested techs then.

Re: Multisatellite data depicts a record-breaking methane leak from a well blowout

#149

Post by netsharc »

anonym29 wrote: post #44
OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Short of China and India voluntarily holding themselves to the same standards as Western Europe and the US China and India emit significantly less CO2 per capita than Western Europe and the US [0] - and that's ignoring the fact they do all of our manufacturing. [0] https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-pe...

They collectively still emit substantially more than the US and Western Europe, and much more importantly, GHG emissions have been declining in the US and Western Europe for over two decades. In that same time period, they have done nothing but grow rapidly in China and India. All the information we have so far suggests that India will continue to grow rapidly in this regard even after China plateaus on carbon emissi…

I wrote about why saying it's their fault and not ours is not admitting our own fault is... bullshit: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41015413

> that middle class is going to want to enjoy the spoils of materialistic consumerism (the true root cause of human-induced climate change) just as much as our grandparents did, our parents did, and we do.

The last 3 words is key there. WE also don't want to give up those spoils. And we want to enjoy them by outsourcing their production to the cheapest places and cheapest methods, like unsafe mining of minerals done by underpaid children. But hey, it's not happening in our country, so we're fine?

If a phone is made with minerals mined using safe Western mining standards, and made by factory workers earning decent wages, and it's CO2 neutral, and so on, it'll be more expensive, and will not sell well, because as long as there's another country producing the same phone but without all those "external" costs, the consumer will say "Look, this phone has the exact same specs but is way cheaper!".

Re: Multisatellite data depicts a record-breaking methane leak from a well blowout

#150

Post by netsharc »

486sx33 wrote: post #34
OsrsNeedsf2P wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Short of China and India voluntarily holding themselves to the same standards as Western Europe and the US China and India emit significantly less CO2 per capita than Western Europe and the US [0] - and that's ignoring the fact they do all of our manufacturing. [0] https://www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-pe...

[flagged]

And will you be happy if iPhones and Walmart toys cost, let's say 30% more, because of China mandating CO2 emissions compensation? (Although such a compensation is mostly mythical). Or that the shelves of Walmart are bare ("Sorry we can only produce 10% of what we're able to, emission caps"), and prices are sky-high because of the law of supply and demand? I bet you'll be moaning then too.
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