ACM Urges Obama To Include Computer Science in k-12 Education
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Re: ACM Urges Obama To Include Computer Science in k-12 Education
#2First off, I love ACM as an organization (not to say I get along with all of the members of our chapter). I volunteer time every year at our conference. And I like education, sort of.
But it's bad enough that drop out rates are >50% for engineers in the US. You think you're going to figure out how to teach it to younger students if you can't even understand why half of everyone loses interest in higher education?
I have a hint: don't take Vannevar Bush so damn seriously. Yes, math + science + analysis == good. Especially when most of our CS and engineering programs were designed during the Cold War. But we also got rid of our practice and drawing coursework.
I'm not buying the iPhone because it's the "best engineered device." Somewhere along the lines, our engineers forgot what the hell art, design, and usability was. It's one of those things you don't want to take to the extreme. People wonder why the CS jobs go to India, it's because CS is not difficult. Creativity and innovation is, I don't see many companies outsourcing that (ok I realize I just made a really vague generalization, but if you look into my comment history, I do go into more detail).
I will say that it's extremely rare to find the guy who can not only code, but design too. I have only met a few in my life, and they're always the most respected people at a company who are incidentally the most desirable to all the others.
Re: ACM Urges Obama To Include Computer Science in k-12 Education
#3First off, I love ACM as an organization (not to say I get along with all of the members of our chapter). I volunteer time every year at our conference. And I like education, sort of. But it's bad enough that drop out rates are >50% for engineers in the US. You think you're going to figure out how to teach it to younger students if you can't even understand why half of everyone loses interest in higher education? I h…
The problem with graduates in the Western world is: there are too many of us already. Even in the "hard" disciplines of science and engineering, there are too few jobs. How many physics graduates go on to become full-time physicists? How many of all graduates go onto jobs where they need what they learnt in undergrad? Not many.
Meanwhile, try finding a plumber or an electrician... Our physical infrastructure is quite literally crumbling around us while our heads are in the clouds.
Re: ACM Urges Obama To Include Computer Science in k-12 Education
#4First off, I love ACM as an organization (not to say I get along with all of the members of our chapter). I volunteer time every year at our conference. And I like education, sort of. But it's bad enough that drop out rates are >50% for engineers in the US. You think you're going to figure out how to teach it to younger students if you can't even understand why half of everyone loses interest in higher education? I h…
The problem with graduates in the Western world is: there are too many of us already. Even in the "hard" disciplines of science and engineering, there are too few jobs. How many physics graduates go on to become full-time physicists? How many of all graduates go onto jobs where they need what they learnt in undergrad? Not many. Meanwhile, try finding a plumber or an electrician... Our physical infrastructure is quite…
Do you have any numbers or stats on this? I haven't heard that theory before.
I just watched a video interview with Bill Gates yesterday and he said that we're now behind in software. The entire robotics industry (according to Gates) is behind not because of hardware, but because we don't have the software. He went on to say that software will continue to be a field where we need even more people involved, where we have most of the hardware we need.
Re: ACM Urges Obama To Include Computer Science in k-12 Education
#5First off, I love ACM as an organization (not to say I get along with all of the members of our chapter). I volunteer time every year at our conference. And I like education, sort of. But it's bad enough that drop out rates are >50% for engineers in the US. You think you're going to figure out how to teach it to younger students if you can't even understand why half of everyone loses interest in higher education? I h…
CS isn't about coding. I understand where you are coming from, but high level governament educational initiaves shouldn't focus on consumer products. Smart people are meant to build great things. The United States would have never come on top of things if it had focused on shiny stuff.
Maybe I am old school, maybe I want the next mission to Mars to work instead of looking good on TV. And maybe I haven't slept today so I am bitter. But you have to thing bigger than Ipods.
Re: ACM Urges Obama To Include Computer Science in k-12 Education
#6Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem with graduates in the Western world is: there are too many of us already. Even in the "hard" disciplines of science and engineering, there are too few jobs. How many physics graduates go on to become full-time physicists? How many of all graduates go onto jobs where they need what they learnt in undergrad? Not many. Meanwhile, try finding a plumber or an electrician... Our physical infrastructure is quite…
Do you have any numbers or stats on this? I haven't heard that theory before. I just watched a video interview with Bill Gates yesterday and he said that we're now behind in software. The entire robotics industry (according to Gates) is behind not because of hardware, but because we don't have the software. He went on to say that software will continue to be a field where we need even more people involved, where we h…
Philip Greenspun's essays are a good starting point:
http://philip.greenspun.com/careers/
Also that's kinda nonsense; what's really lacking in robotics is a suitable power source.
Re: ACM Urges Obama To Include Computer Science in k-12 Education
#7Earlier quoted context omitted.
The problem with graduates in the Western world is: there are too many of us already. Even in the "hard" disciplines of science and engineering, there are too few jobs. How many physics graduates go on to become full-time physicists? How many of all graduates go onto jobs where they need what they learnt in undergrad? Not many. Meanwhile, try finding a plumber or an electrician... Our physical infrastructure is quite…
Do you have any numbers or stats on this? I haven't heard that theory before. I just watched a video interview with Bill Gates yesterday and he said that we're now behind in software. The entire robotics industry (according to Gates) is behind not because of hardware, but because we don't have the software. He went on to say that software will continue to be a field where we need even more people involved, where we h…
Here are stats on math. In short: 1157 PhDs given out, and 761 have academic positions (the main place to get a job as a mathematician).
Plus, a reasonable fraction of the academic positions are purely teaching.
http://www.ams.org/employment/2007Survey-DG.pdf
I know physics is similar.
Re: ACM Urges Obama To Include Computer Science in k-12 Education
#8On the one hand, I think it would be great to live in a world where some basic level of "code literacy" was expected of all adults--just like today, every adult in the industrialized world is expected to be able to read and write, and Ph.D.s in education have put a great deal of effort into figuring out how to teach that skill to the kids who Just Don't Get It.
On the other hand,
(1) as jmtame says above, we don't seem to have a clue (yet) about how to teach programming to college students who Just Don't Get It
(2) if we put CS in to the K-12 curriculum, then something else needs to be taken out, and I'm not sure what deserves the boot.
Re: ACM Urges Obama To Include Computer Science in k-12 Education
#9On the one hand, I think it would be great to live in a world where some basic level of "code literacy" was expected of all adults--just like today, every adult in the industrialized world is expected to be able to read and write, and Ph.D.s in education have put a great deal of effort into figuring out how to teach that skill to the kids who Just Don't Get It. On the other hand, (1) as jmtame says above, we don't se…
"Ph.D.s in education have put a great deal of effort into figuring out how to teach that skill to the kids who Just Don't Get It."
Actually, Ph.D.s in education have done a generally appalling job of researching how children learn to read. There are a few happy exceptions, but I would look more to Ph.D.s in linguistics or psychology (harder disciplines, and more evidence-based, than education in general) for advice on how to teach children to read.
Here are some sound resources on reading instruction:
http://www.amazon.com/Lets-Linguistic-Approach-Leonard-Bloom...
http://www.amazon.com/Language-Development-Learning-Read-Sci...
http://www.amazon.com/Overcoming-Dyslexia-Complete-Science-B...
So, yes, the problem with introducing programming into the K-12 curriculum is
a) figuring out how to teach it well to learners of that age of varying backgrounds and interest levels, and
b) figuring out what else gets crowded out of the curriculum.
Re: ACM Urges Obama To Include Computer Science in k-12 Education
#10First off, I love ACM as an organization (not to say I get along with all of the members of our chapter). I volunteer time every year at our conference. And I like education, sort of. But it's bad enough that drop out rates are >50% for engineers in the US. You think you're going to figure out how to teach it to younger students if you can't even understand why half of everyone loses interest in higher education? I h…
"You think you're going to figure out how to teach it to younger students if you can't even understand why half of everyone loses interest in higher education?"
Our public school system taught Logo in third or fourth grade. That's how my friends and I got interested in coding.