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Ask HN: Why is Apple ripping of European users? 1€ ≠ 1$

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Re: Ask HN: Why is Apple ripping of European users? 1€ ≠ 1$

#81

Post by wtvanhest »

davidw wrote: post #79
wtvanhest wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The european regulations are cheap compared to the legal risks of operating in the states. So, thats not it. You would need to provide some evidence of this since it is completely counter intuitive. Just look at where US treasuries compared with European bonds to compare which countries/continents are viewed as having less legal risks. Exchange rate? You keep assuming prices are based on costs. They are not. They are…

> Just look at where US treasuries compared with European bonds to compare which countries/continents are viewed as having less legal risks. To be fair, you're comparing apples to oranges. Government bond prices reflect the default risk of the government in question. 'Legal risks' include things like getting sued because of perceived defects of your product. Some statistics about that would be interesting, but probab…

To be fair, you're comparing apples to oranges. Government bond prices reflect the default risk of the government in question.

They also reflect overall competitiveness of the country in question which by definition includes legal risks. This is primarily driven from currency fluctuations. In Europe, the German Bund is currently priced stronger than Spanish bonds which is due to default risk.

If each country had their own currency (compare US to Europe as a whole), the bigger fear would not be default risk, it would be inflation risk. This inflation risk is a function of competitiveness.

'Legal risks' include things like getting sued because of perceived defects of your product. Some statistics about that would be interesting, but probably vary greatly by sector: medical devices probably involve lots of ass-covering, whereas something like paper notebooks probably incur fewer lawsuits.

I agree with your assessment of what legal risks are, but keep in mind it is more to do with the change in legal structures rather than current legal structure. If there is no change, businesses can make projections and be confident in them. If there is a risk of change, that is perceived as a larger legal risk.

I don't have statistics, but I would say that a country (France) which elects a president that is perceived as socialist (radical change from previous president) has far more legal risks than the relatively stable US.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Apple ripping of European users? 1€ ≠ 1$

#82

Post by jonhendry »

sjwright wrote: post #53
ricardobeat wrote: post #32

I feel obliged to repost this. Updated prices in Brazil: Air 11": R$2699 -> R$3699 (1849 USD) MBP 13": R$3599 -> R$3999 (2000 USD) New MBP: R$9999 (4500 USD - WHAT??) New MBP maxed out: R$15973 (~8000 USD...) Import tax is 60% for individuals, around 40%, maybe less for importers. $2199 * 1.4 * 2.06 (today's USD, predicted to go Now, what were you saying about being ripped off? [edit] just for kicks I maxed out a Mac…

How do other brands compare? For example, how much would a similar Dell or Lenovo laptop cost?

A friend of mine who has family in Brazil would buy electronics like game consoles in the US and take them down on the plane, because it was significantly cheaper that way.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Apple ripping of European users? 1€ ≠ 1$

#83

Post by jeza »

doug363 wrote: post #31
wisty wrote: post #11

In Australia, it's called "The Australia Tax". Partly, selling into another country is a bit of a headache. That's one reason why US businesses can do so well - they only need to succeed in a single jurisdiction and they'll make a lot of money. Yes, there's different state laws, but pretty much all countries have annoying state laws, and not all countries are as lucrative a market as California alone.

I get the impression that state laws are significantly more uniform in Australia than the US... IMHO, it's more that distributors are "used to" a lower AUD, have exclusivity/best price guarantees, and so can prevent anyone importing goods (at retail scale) that undercuts them. They've got their business model worked out on the basis of higher prices, their customers are used to higher prices, and they make arguments…

There's certainly that factor, but then it even happens with the app store. Though what I think happened is that the distributors kicked up a fuss when the iTunes store was made available in Australia, so the record companies made the prices higher. Apple learnt from this experience that they could make the prices higher, so they've replicated it across the board. I guess there's also the possibility that some larger app store developers have been able to convince Apple to make the price differential higher for Australia as well.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Apple ripping of European users? 1€ ≠ 1$

#84

Post by mjwalshe »

jakeonthemove wrote: post #76
mjwalshe wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not in the UK from it tech and engineeing jobs our pay is much lower compared to SV and housing costs a lot more. The only advatage we have is only paying 12% for NHS etc instead of 20%+ just for health insurance.

I was talking more about the mainland - Germany, Netherlands and Belgium to be more specific... But you can't really compare anything with the Silicon Valley directly - IT and engineering jobs are present all over the US, and they pay less than SV companies and startups, too...

well going from UK to Europe "Engineers" are MUCH MUCH Higher status jobs.

The wife of the Number 2 at BT labs (you know the place that desigend and built Colossus) once got asked what sort of cars her husband worked on :-(

And yes they did think he was a car mechanic.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Apple ripping of European users? 1€ ≠ 1$

#85

Post by davidw »

wtvanhest wrote: post #81
davidw wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just look at where US treasuries compared with European bonds to compare which countries/continents are viewed as having less legal risks. To be fair, you're comparing apples to oranges. Government bond prices reflect the default risk of the government in question. 'Legal risks' include things like getting sued because of perceived defects of your product. Some statistics about that would be interesting, but probab…

To be fair, you're comparing apples to oranges. Government bond prices reflect the default risk of the government in question. They also reflect overall competitiveness of the country in question which by definition includes legal risks. This is primarily driven from currency fluctuations. In Europe, the German Bund is currently priced stronger than Spanish bonds which is due to default risk. If each country had thei…

I think the OP was talking about the costs of lawsuits and their effects on business, not risk of doing business in general in various places.

Also: I don't think that, in the context of France, the change in presidents is really all that radical. I suppose I could be proven wrong, but I don't see them as being that much further apart than, say, GWB and Obama, even if the latter two are shifted 'rightwards' compared to what the center is in France.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Apple ripping of European users? 1€ ≠ 1$

#86

Post by gm »

cientifico wrote: post #49

Because they can! The good price is the maximum price the client will pay for the service/product. As long as the users buy, they are going to continue this way.

I support this argument. Not sure why the downvotes, but it's the most truthful answer in this set of comments.

Cheers to you sir, just because people don't like the truth does not make it any less truthful.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Apple ripping of European users? 1€ ≠ 1$

#87

Post by rmc »

kolinko wrote: post #9
toyg wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although not as massive as it looks in the first place, there is still a discrepancy. The new MBP-Retina top config is 2799 USD -> 1805 GBP. In the UK store, it's 2299 GBP, less 20% vat -> 1916 GBP. So they're taking more than a 100 quid extra from each UK customer, "just because".

Well, don't forget our lovely European regulations. The costs of hiring employees and handling business in Europe is higher than in US if I'm not mistaken. Finally, I'd guess that Apple pays its contractors in USD. So if today 1 USD = 0.8 EUR, Apple needs to consider the fact that tomorrow it may be 1 USD = 0.9 EUR, and the price needs to reflect this scenario as well (they cannot change the price every single month…

Well, don't forget our lovely European regulations. The costs of hiring employees and handling business in Europe is higher than in US if I'm not mistaken.

That's a cost I'm willing to take. I don't want sweatshops like China, or CEOs who can threaten all employees with at will firings if they don't give up their stock options (Zynga IIRC). Give me good old fashioned rights any day.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Apple ripping of European users? 1€ ≠ 1$

#88

Post by rmc »

sycren wrote: post #55
jgrahamc wrote: post #3

I don't think it's that strange. Let's compare the cost of the same MacBook Air in the US and France. 1. MacBook Air 11-inch : 64GB in US is $999. 2. MacBook Air 11-inch : 64GB in France is €1,049 3. $1 = €0.80 at the current time. So you might think the MacBook Air should be €800 (999 * 0.80). So why it is €249 more? France levies 19.6% TVA (sales tax) on goods and the tax is included in the display price; the US le…

I believe the UK also has better consumer protection laws than the US like being able to return a product within 28 days of purchase to get a full refund. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consumer_protection_in_the_Unit...

Most of those laws are European law, that would apply to all EU countries.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Apple ripping of European users? 1€ ≠ 1$

#89

Post by rmc »

netcan wrote: post #51
maigret wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why there is the Euro also ;) Still missing a big manufacturer in there tho.

Theoretically, but setting up a business in Greece doesn't get you the same degree of market access to the EU as setting up a business in New Mexico gets you to the US. You still have to deal with a lot of very different sovereign states, languages and mentalities. A Swedish customer is not going to feel much different about dealing with Greek business than dealing with a Russian one. Imagine you want to start a busi…

Russia, not being a member of the European Union, is not part of the Common Market.

Re: Ask HN: Why is Apple ripping of European users? 1€ ≠ 1$

#90

Post by rmc »

waxjar wrote: post #48
virtualritz wrote: post #6

In Europe you are forced to give your customer 2 years of warranty on certain products. E.g. computer hardware or electronics. Apple refused to in the past (and still had their crazy EUR prices then). But now, after being dragged to court about it in Italy, and loosing, they at least have a good reason to charge more in Europe. ;) This is the case for most vendors. E.g. my Panasonic GH2 camera did cost a bit more in…

Apple's warranty policies in Europe are still a disgrace, unfortunately. The warranty on a laptop charger is only one year, instead of two, for example. They aren't cheap to replace either (€80 for a simple cable?!). The warranty on an iPod is useless when there's a crack in the screen: defects that have nothing to do with the screen will only be fixed for a hefty price. The advice is to "just buy a new one". In the…

Many shops will claim that their warrenty is such-and-such, or that store policy says such-and-such. Sometimes this does not match Law. In this case the Law wins.
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