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Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

abc.net.au

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Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#81

Post by nkrisc »

ClumsyPilot wrote: post #7
cjs_ac wrote: post #3

Lead poisoning in Australian mining towns is a surprisingly contentious issue. Town mayors usually try to cover up and deny any evidence of lead poisoning, because without the mines, there is no town. The broken hill that the town of Broken Hill is named after no longer exists. The mullock heap pictured in the article is all that remains: the entire hill was dug away when the original mine was active. As you can see…

> Town mayors usually try to cover up and deny any evidence of lead poisoning After moving to the West from a developing country was surprised to discover that things our politicians do for a big bribe western politicians sometimes do for free.

Because there lying and cheating for bribes are how politicians make money. Here, lying and cheating are how they keep the job that allows them to make money in other dishonest ways.

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#82

Post by oska »

endemic wrote: post #34
lostlogin wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You heathens do things so slowly. It takes a week and someone needs to find the apple snake. /s

You jest, but sometimes I wonder which is more likely.

Just reversed the downvote that was on yr comment because I interpreted it as not so much as saying the Bible story is what literally happened but that biogenesis feels very unlikely (even over billions of years). I feel similarly and my personal belief is that life has always existed and that it's fundamental to the universe.

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#83

Post by darby_nine »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #61
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An old friend of mine who was originally from Iran told me something a family member of his said to him, which was basically: "In the west you may not have bribery, but the ability to influence decisions is mostly out of your reach. At least here little people can have some small control over their environment through small bribes." I had never heard bribery pitched that way before, and it's obviously... a garbage...…

> but the ability to influence decisions is mostly out of your reach. At least here little people can have some small control over their environment through small bribes This is mostly comforting nonsense. The average American has more say, potential and actual, in their government than the average Iranian. (And the average Iranian more than the Saudis.) What in a bribe economy one pays for with cash in a civil socie…

> The average American has more say, potential and actual, in their government than the average Iranian

Sure, if you know the right people or can buy a lobbyist. Otherwise all you can do is complain to a wall. Even lawsuits don't generally have net positive effects on society—nothing changes, we just do the same things at greater expense.

Most of our society is privatized and well out of the reach of democratic output. If you're lucky, the market in question might have some limited competition and you can choose the slightly lesser poison. That's about it.

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#84

Post by robertlagrant »

bobthepanda wrote: post #56
tehjoker wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The government is designed for rich people from its foundation, it's a cozy revolving door for the elites and functions to repress popular movements. Officials identify with business and owners and can pick up do-nothing or interesting jobs after their government services. US elections are some of the most expensive in the world and politicians rely on donations to win their campaigns. The connections between busines…

Right. It is worth noting that the total allowable cost of the recent UK election was 54k per seat per party, meaning that a political party could only spend 34M GBP contesting every Parliamentary seat. It would only take the top three House fundraisers to outstrip this number: https://www.opensecrets.org/elections-overview/fundraising-t...

I don't disagree with the idea of limiting funding, but this is a bad comparison. You're talking about a campaign to reach about 50m voters, vs about 300m voters. You should probably at least adjust your UK figure accordingly, to make it reasonable.

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#85

Post by JumpCrisscross »

darby_nine wrote: post #83
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but the ability to influence decisions is mostly out of your reach. At least here little people can have some small control over their environment through small bribes This is mostly comforting nonsense. The average American has more say, potential and actual, in their government than the average Iranian. (And the average Iranian more than the Saudis.) What in a bribe economy one pays for with cash in a civil socie…

> The average American has more say, potential and actual, in their government than the average Iranian Sure, if you know the right people or can buy a lobbyist. Otherwise all you can do is complain to a wall. Even lawsuits don't generally have net positive effects on society—nothing changes, we just do the same things at greater expense. Most of our society is privatized and well out of the reach of democratic outpu…

> if you know the right people or can buy a lobbyist

This is cynical nonsense.

If you can get to a polling station you have more influence than the average Iranian. If you can write a coherent letter to an elected or maintain emotional composure on a call, you have more than anyone in their non-elite class. If you can attend local government meetings, join an advocacy group or travel to canvas or protest you have more power than their minor elites. (If you are in the leadership of those groups, you have more power—in most cases—than donors who give thousands a cycle.)

One of the major elements of the uneducated pillar I cited is Americans who were never taught or shown how to civically engage getting cynical out of a lack of education.

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#86

Post by yareally »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #72
yareally wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are many kinds of sparrows, but the one people usually refer to as a pest is the Eurasian House Sparrow. Can be found on 6 continents, reproduces quickly, and are gregarious (most other sparrows don't live in groups). I find their antics to be interesting, but they're aggressive to other birds, especially for nesting sites (and they'll nest anywhere, unlike many of the birds they compete with).

They are only a pest outside their home range. In the UK they are in decline. "Conservation of the house sparrow Data suggests the UK's house sparrow population declined by 66% between 1977 and 2015, with urban populations faring worse than rural ones." https://www.nhm.ac.uk/discover/house-sparrow-passer-domestic...

Funny enough, so are European Pigeons and Starlings. We have too many here in the States, but on the decline in Europe.

I'm guessing part of it is due to our sanitary habits here. Lots of food is trashed in a way that makes it easy for them to forge for it.

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#87

Post by darby_nine »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #85
darby_nine wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The average American has more say, potential and actual, in their government than the average Iranian Sure, if you know the right people or can buy a lobbyist. Otherwise all you can do is complain to a wall. Even lawsuits don't generally have net positive effects on society—nothing changes, we just do the same things at greater expense. Most of our society is privatized and well out of the reach of democratic outpu…

> if you know the right people or can buy a lobbyist This is cynical nonsense. If you can get to a polling station you have more influence than the average Iranian. If you can write a coherent letter to an elected or maintain emotional composure on a call, you have more than anyone in their non-elite class. If you can attend local government meetings, join an advocacy group or travel to canvas or protest you have mor…

> If you can get to a polling station you have more influence than the average Iranian.

Have you not been watching the news? Iran has proven itself to be at least better at performing like a democracy than most of our allies in the region, excepting maybe Turkey.

Regardless, it's extremely difficult to wield real influence with a vote (or via advocating for any sort of elected official) as most problems are directly avoided during campaigning, and citizens can be safely ignored when reelection isn't under threat. And anyway, most of our society is owned privately and outside the reach of democratic oversight.

Anyway, lip service to democratic processes is not the same thing as actual democratic will. Just because you're performing the aesthetics of what you're taught democracy is doesn't demonstrate any actual influence. For the most part, problems are decided long before they hit the ballot box and you can only really weigh in on certain wedge issues.

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#88

Post by JumpCrisscross »

darby_nine wrote: post #87
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you know the right people or can buy a lobbyist This is cynical nonsense. If you can get to a polling station you have more influence than the average Iranian. If you can write a coherent letter to an elected or maintain emotional composure on a call, you have more than anyone in their non-elite class. If you can attend local government meetings, join an advocacy group or travel to canvas or protest you have mor…

> If you can get to a polling station you have more influence than the average Iranian. Have you not been watching the news? Iran has proven itself to be at least better at performing like a democracy than most of our allies in the region, excepting maybe Turkey. Regardless, it's extremely difficult to wield real influence with a vote (or via advocating for any sort of elected official) as most problems are directly…

> Iran has proven itself to be at least better at performing like a democracy than most of our allies

Sure. That wasn't the question. The comparison was between Iran and America, and whether being able to bribe people gives Iranians more power than Americans. It doesn't.

> it's extremely difficult to wield real influence with a vote (or via advocating for any sort of elected official) as most problems are directly avoided during campaigning

You're focussing on Presidential elections. Of course in a national vote the individual will be diluted. That's the point. Go more local (and earlier, to primaries) and you see massive questions resolved with tens of votes, even in New York.

> problems are decided long before they hit the ballot box and you can only really weigh in on certain wedge issues

Correct. Most of what I described above is before the ballot box. That said, even the multiple-choice power exerted at the ballot box is more power than the average Iranian has. (There is an argument to be made that if someone doesn't believe this, they shouldn't vote.)

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#89

Post by tacocataco »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #61
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An old friend of mine who was originally from Iran told me something a family member of his said to him, which was basically: "In the west you may not have bribery, but the ability to influence decisions is mostly out of your reach. At least here little people can have some small control over their environment through small bribes." I had never heard bribery pitched that way before, and it's obviously... a garbage...…

> but the ability to influence decisions is mostly out of your reach. At least here little people can have some small control over their environment through small bribes This is mostly comforting nonsense. The average American has more say, potential and actual, in their government than the average Iranian. (And the average Iranian more than the Saudis.) What in a bribe economy one pays for with cash in a civil socie…

> The tragedy in American civics is far too many are too poor, tired and/or uneducated to fully engage.

Engage with whom?

First Past The Post voting ensures I have no viable political party to vote for that would reasonably represent me.

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#90

Post by tacocataco »

01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #9
zug_zug wrote: post #4

It's really scary how a tiny amount of a mineral can permanently damage the human mind. I have to admit there's a part of me that almost wants to be skeptical, that mg of a rock could overcome the wonderous self-aware human mind. Every so often I have to remind that skeptical piece of me that it's an idiot and that every human alive is wildly fragile to any number of elements and chemicals. ------ Onto the article, i…

Well as they say, an entire human body is just > Water (35 L), Carbon (20 kg), Ammonia (4 L), Lime (1.5 kg), Phosphorous (800 g), Salt (250 g), Saltpeter (100 g), Sulfur (80 g), Fluorine (7.5 g), Iron (5 g), Silicon (3 g) and trace amounts of fifteen other elements. (The amounts are off somewhat but you get the idea)

You'd think the salt levels would be much higher.
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