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The only tourist in Moldova

telegraph.co.uk

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Re: The only tourist in Moldova

#351

Post by racional »

generic92034 wrote: post #234
racional wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

English is spoken very widely in Ukraine in fact, and was just promoted to an official status (not as a primary language, but to a secondary official status nonetheless) in the past month.

So, maybe that is the difference to the German language? Here in the news you can hear "die Ukraine" (the Ukraine) all the time. And usually any "rules" in the rough vicinity of political correctness, anti-discrimination or simple politeness are meticulously adhered to in German news. Which I am personally fine with.

The situation with articles and country names in German is quite different. The article is essentially affixed to many country names as a standard part of the language, and the lack or presence of the article does not immediately convey regional or sub-national status like it generally does in English.

If anything the connotation is the opposite from English -- articles are generally more attached to certain countries for which Germany has historically had significant relations (for good reasons or bad). In modern times though, it's just another fussy part of the language that one is obliged to put up with and not give a second thought to. One simply has to say "im Frankreich", "in der Türkei", "im Iran" and so forth (but also not attach the article to most other countries), and that's all there is to it.

I wish I could point to an authoritative reference for this, but that's impossible nowadays that we have the zombie internet and everything online has been reduced to shitty apps, flashcards and "didya know?" pages.

Re: The only tourist in Moldova

#352

Post by alxlaz »

throwaway7ahgb wrote: post #312
alxlaz wrote: post #293

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"History" might be a thing but Moldova has not been part of the USSR for more than 30 years now, and has been part of the Russian Empire for only about a hundred years (after the peace of 1812 and until shortly after the first World War). It was one of the shortest-lived imperial possessions. > Also a good portion of the population identifies as Russian. Said "good portion" is about 4%, according to the latest census…

People not born in ex-USSR countries will not understand these statements, especially today. There are many countries where Russian is spoken as a language and when people identify as "russian" it is mostly the traditions and history. It has nothing to do with geopolitics. It is language, religion, family values, holidays, food, celebrations, traditions, etc.... This is what is meant by identifying as Russian.

This is wishful thinking at its finest.

First off, lots of people in the former Soviet Republics (and beyond the Iron Curtain in general) speak Russian because that's what they had to learn in school and what they were forced to use in some public settings. Speaking Russian has absolutely nothing to do with religion, family values, holidays, food, celebration and traditions.

Second, the USSR didn't have a monopoly on the Christian Orthodox religion. Moldova, in particular, was predominantly orthodox centuries before it was occupied by the Russian empire in 1812. The shared religion, and the consequent values (including family values), celebrations and traditions have nothing to do with Russia.

Third, people don't need Internet randos to tell them what it means to be Russian. There's a very simple way to figure out if the "identify as Russian": you ask people if they identify as Russian, if they say yes, then they identify as Russian, if they say no, then they don't. As of 2014, that's true of about 4% of Moldova's population. Telling the other 96% that they're actually Russian is exactly what gets people angry about these things.

Re: The only tourist in Moldova

#353

Post by [deleted] »

alxlaz wrote: post #350
protomolecule wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yes. Many of the Russian Empire's, and later USSR's former territories have their own versions of the trail of tears, reservations, and atrocities in Congo, except with Russian/Soviets at the privileged end. It's not a frivolous use of the word at all.

[deleted]

Re: The only tourist in Moldova

#354

Post by sam_lowry_ »

actionfromafar wrote: post #347
lesuorac wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is going to learn all the laws of a country. When the laws/custom of a country are so different than yours that a trivially legal act in your country becomes highly illegal in that country you should avoid that country because who knows what else you'll do that'll get you into trouble.

Iran in particular has started to take foreigners hostage to trade prisoners with abroad. Laws don't matter much in Iran.

Same in Russia. Evan Gershkovich has been sentenced to 16 years in prison today.

Re: The only tourist in Moldova

#355

Post by protomolecule »

alxlaz wrote: post #350
protomolecule wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Yes. Many of the Russian Empire's, and later USSR's former territories have their own versions of the trail of tears, reservations, and atrocities in Congo, except with Russian/Soviets at the privileged end. It's not a frivolous use of the word at all.

I think Moldovans are doing much better that Native Americans in the US.

"have their own versions of the atrocities in Congo"

I think you need to read on the history of Congo.

"except with Russian/Soviets at the privileged end"

This is where you are wrong. Russians suffered from the crimes of bolshevik's/Stalin's regime just as much.

Re: The only tourist in Moldova

#356

Post by protomolecule »

inglor_cz wrote: post #349
protomolecule wrote: post #344

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Frivolous? Stalin's campaign against various subjugated nations (Baltic, Crimean Tatars etc.) would fit right in , only it happened generation(s) later, in a supposed Paradise of Workers and Peasants. Mass deportations, artificial famine, mass executions, torture.

Don't you think Moldovans are doing much better that Native Americans in the US?

You need to see the breakdown of Stalin's victims by ethnicity and see how many Russians there are.

"artificial famine"

For example:

"It has been estimated that between 3.3 and 3.9 million died in Ukraine, between 2 and 3 million died in Russia, and 1.5–2 million (1.3 million of whom were ethnic Kazakhs) died in Kazakhstan." [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_famine_of_1930%E2%80%93...

Re: The only tourist in Moldova

#357

Post by mschuster91 »

biztos wrote: post #331
kwhitefoot wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

78% or 78 degrees proof? They are different measures in different places. Slivovitz, for instance, is typically 70% alcohol. Proof spirit (100 proof) in the UK is 57.06% alcohol by volume, in the US and Australia it is 50%, in France Gay-Lussac defined proof degree and percent alcohol by volume to be the same. See https://www.britannica.com/story/why-is-alcohol-measured-by-...

Yikes, where do they drink 70% Slivovitz? A fairly strong one is 42%, same with most other alcohols, even grappa. I’ve had 60% and it was distinctly unpleasant, felt like something you’d drink on a dare instead of for pleasure.

> Yikes, where do they drink 70% Slivovitz?

I'd be surprised if the stuff some of my relatives used to distill in Croatia would have less than that lol.

In my experience virtually everyone from the Balkans knows someone who distills themselves or knows someone who does. In my alcohol closet there's like six distinct Slivos from all over South/Eastern Europe. Homemade, of course, and you absolutely do not want to drink more than 2cl... not because of possible methanol but because this stuff will absolutely get you wasted in no time at all.

Re: The only tourist in Moldova

#358

Post by alxlaz »

protomolecule wrote: post #355
alxlaz wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. Many of the Russian Empire's, and later USSR's former territories have their own versions of the trail of tears, reservations, and atrocities in Congo, except with Russian/Soviets at the privileged end. It's not a frivolous use of the word at all.

I think Moldovans are doing much better that Native Americans in the US. "have their own versions of the atrocities in Congo" I think you need to read on the history of Congo. "except with Russian/Soviets at the privileged end" This is where you are wrong. Russians suffered from the crimes of bolshevik's/Stalin's regime just as much.

Mate, you realise you're talking to someone who's lost family members to, and has grown among victims of, trail of tears, state-organised atrocities (from forced labour to hostage-taking) that totally didn't happen, and reservations that we totally didn't have, right? You think those things didn't happen in the former Soviet space? Buy a plane ticket, I'll introduce you to a few hundred survivors who experienced them first-hand so that you can tell them they just imagined it.

Colonial Europe had no shortage of mad dictators that European population suffered at the hands of. Colonising other parts of the world while also hurting one's own people are not mutually incompatible.

Re: The only tourist in Moldova

#359

Post by [deleted] »

throwaway290 wrote: post #328
SomeoneFromCA wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is so incorrect, it is boderline idiotic urban legend. post-Soviet cities have hot water year around; same heating plants used for winter heating, are used for hot water in summer time, albeit at lower power. Also waste heat from power plants used for the same purpose.

I'll fact check you since I was born and grew up in Russia. No water most of the summer used to be the norm in my city. Checking as of today, in two cities I know central hot water is off every summer for 2+ weeks. My city improved and another one regressed. In a third city I asked about (one of the coldest) it's off for just single digit days.

[deleted]

Re: The only tourist in Moldova

#360

Post by rurban »

Friend of mine had the very same experience lately, when he traveled Moldova. He was in a group, and every other of the group was from some kind of "foreign diplomatic service" :)
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