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60-year-old German man likely seventh person to be effectively cured from HIV

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Re: 60-year-old German man likely seventh person to be effectively cured from HIV

#11

Post by spencerchubb »

blue_dragon wrote: post #10
rvba wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are undetectable levels really impossible to transmit?

My "pragmatic" analysis: I once spoke to a primary-care doctor about the risks of getting HIV through sex. The doctor told me that the risk of getting HIV the "typical way" (receiving anal sex) is about 1/72. Thus, for every 72 exposures, the recipient would contract HIV one time. This assumes that condoms are not used, and that the transmitter has an untreated HIV infection, which presumably has a high viral load. T…

> Whether or not you're comfortable having sex with someone who is HIV+ but claims to have an undetectable viral load is a separate question entirely.

If someone has HIV, they would have to be extremely suicidal to forego taking the medication that would make them undetectable.

Re: 60-year-old German man likely seventh person to be effectively cured from HIV

#12

Post by nerdjon »

blue_dragon wrote: post #10
rvba wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are undetectable levels really impossible to transmit?

My "pragmatic" analysis: I once spoke to a primary-care doctor about the risks of getting HIV through sex. The doctor told me that the risk of getting HIV the "typical way" (receiving anal sex) is about 1/72. Thus, for every 72 exposures, the recipient would contract HIV one time. This assumes that condoms are not used, and that the transmitter has an untreated HIV infection, which presumably has a high viral load. T…

It’s interesting. I never really thought to ask about the chances with anal given that going on prep wasn’t really even a question.

I knew it wasn’t one exposure and you would get it, but I honestly kinda figured the chances were higher than that.

Regarding oral, I was under the impression that the important caveat there was assuming you had no major sores in your mouth (like, maybe don’t do it after getting dental surgery). Since the reason it’s nil is due to the acids in your saliva and stomach, at least that is what my doctor told me.

Re: 60-year-old German man likely seventh person to be effectively cured from HIV

#13

Post by pbj1968 »

somnic wrote: post #8
rvba wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are undetectable levels really impossible to transmit?

As I understand it, large studies of couples where one partner has HIV with an undetectable viral load and the other does not have HIV have not recorded any cases of transmission through sexual activity. The question of whether it's "impossible" or "extremely unlikely" comes down more to philosophy than anything pragmatic at this point. Transmission through sharing needles we have less confidence around, because ille…

“Got it through sharing needles” was the 90s version of “got herpes from a toilet seat.”

Re: 60-year-old German man likely seventh person to be effectively cured from HIV

#14

Post by onetokeoverthe »

pbj1968 wrote: post #13
somnic wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, large studies of couples where one partner has HIV with an undetectable viral load and the other does not have HIV have not recorded any cases of transmission through sexual activity. The question of whether it's "impossible" or "extremely unlikely" comes down more to philosophy than anything pragmatic at this point. Transmission through sharing needles we have less confidence around, because ille…

“Got it through sharing needles” was the 90s version of “got herpes from a toilet seat.”

[dead]

Re: 60-year-old German man likely seventh person to be effectively cured from HIV

#15

Post by tidenly »

spencerchubb wrote: post #11
blue_dragon wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My "pragmatic" analysis: I once spoke to a primary-care doctor about the risks of getting HIV through sex. The doctor told me that the risk of getting HIV the "typical way" (receiving anal sex) is about 1/72. Thus, for every 72 exposures, the recipient would contract HIV one time. This assumes that condoms are not used, and that the transmitter has an untreated HIV infection, which presumably has a high viral load. T…

> Whether or not you're comfortable having sex with someone who is HIV+ but claims to have an undetectable viral load is a separate question entirely. If someone has HIV, they would have to be extremely suicidal to forego taking the medication that would make them undetectable.

Sorry to rant a little, but as someone who grew up with HIV in the family, this odd pressure against people who might be hesitant to sleep with someone U=U always feels uncomfortable and manipulative to me. I see it a lot around the internet.

The way I was raised, I'm the only person I trust with my sexual health. I would never trust someones word they're tested recently and have unprotected sex with them. I wouldn't trust someone saying they're on PrEP and have unprotected sex with them either. I can only trust myself. U=U is exactly the same situation.

In a zero trust mindset like that, someone telling me they're U=U only tells me they have HIV. I have HIV+ friends who struggle to take their meds at the right time every day, or forget. And I also know people who have lied about when they last took their STI screening to hookups.

I'm also sure a bunch of people would get angry if you asked a U=U person to show you their latest CD4 count or viral load proof too - so what am I to do, just trust that, unlike everyone else, U=U people are perfectly honest, and never screw up taking their meds?

The response to this is often "anyone COULD have HIV, U=U people are actually safer because they have it locked down", but again to me this is about as trustworthy as "anyone COULD have HIV, but people on PrEP have it locked down". It all relies on the trust the other person is on top of their shit.

Re: 60-year-old German man likely seventh person to be effectively cured from HIV

#16

Post by bleakenthusiasm »

tidenly wrote: post #15
spencerchubb wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Whether or not you're comfortable having sex with someone who is HIV+ but claims to have an undetectable viral load is a separate question entirely. If someone has HIV, they would have to be extremely suicidal to forego taking the medication that would make them undetectable.

Sorry to rant a little, but as someone who grew up with HIV in the family, this odd pressure against people who might be hesitant to sleep with someone U=U always feels uncomfortable and manipulative to me. I see it a lot around the internet. The way I was raised, I'm the only person I trust with my sexual health. I would never trust someones word they're tested recently and have unprotected sex with them. I wouldn't…

I read this entire thread under the assumption that we are talking about long term partners here. Completely disregarding HIV, there are enough other STIs that say unprotected sex is a bad idea, so if we are talking about hookups, the person can tell me whatever they want, condom is mandatory.

Of course long term relationships don't magically shield you against STI, but I'd hope there is enough trust to share test results of any kind that are relevant to this matter if you are having the discussion about going fluid bond. And you probably know the person well enough to know if they are reliable with taking their meds on time.

Re: 60-year-old German man likely seventh person to be effectively cured from HIV

#17

Post by jsperx »

rvba wrote: post #7
jfengel wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this case there are no alternatives, because the patients have leukemia as well as HIV. For most people the current regimens for treating HIV are excellent. They can get the viral load down to undetectable levels, which makes it impossible to transmit. And the side effects are minimal.

Are undetectable levels really impossible to transmit?

This article from the NIH reviewing three large studies across heterosexual, bisexual and homosexual couples says the science is clear:

https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/science-clear-...

Re: 60-year-old German man likely seventh person to be effectively cured from HIV

#18

Post by jsperx »

blue_dragon wrote: post #10
rvba wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are undetectable levels really impossible to transmit?

My "pragmatic" analysis: I once spoke to a primary-care doctor about the risks of getting HIV through sex. The doctor told me that the risk of getting HIV the "typical way" (receiving anal sex) is about 1/72. Thus, for every 72 exposures, the recipient would contract HIV one time. This assumes that condoms are not used, and that the transmitter has an untreated HIV infection, which presumably has a high viral load. T…

I was ready to quibble with whether a primary care doctor would have the most reliable statistics on this topic but I found this source, with linked study, that implies (s)he is dead on: https://www.aidsmap.com/about-hiv/estimated-hiv-risk-exposur...

(Also estimates chances for other risk profiles, including 0% for undetectable.)

Seems like you’ve got a good doc there

Re: 60-year-old German man likely seventh person to be effectively cured from HIV

#19

Post by alexey-salmin »

pbj1968 wrote: post #13
somnic wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, large studies of couples where one partner has HIV with an undetectable viral load and the other does not have HIV have not recorded any cases of transmission through sexual activity. The question of whether it's "impossible" or "extremely unlikely" comes down more to philosophy than anything pragmatic at this point. Transmission through sharing needles we have less confidence around, because ille…

“Got it through sharing needles” was the 90s version of “got herpes from a toilet seat.”

Um, no? Unlike with toilet seats, tons of people got it this way. There were even cases of hospital outbreaks due to insufficient sterilization of reusable syringes.

Re: 60-year-old German man likely seventh person to be effectively cured from HIV

#20

Post by Gibbon1 »

pavlov wrote: post #9
somnic wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, large studies of couples where one partner has HIV with an undetectable viral load and the other does not have HIV have not recorded any cases of transmission through sexual activity. The question of whether it's "impossible" or "extremely unlikely" comes down more to philosophy than anything pragmatic at this point. Transmission through sharing needles we have less confidence around, because ille…

I grew up in the 1990s with an overwhelming fear of HIV as a teenager. It still feels incredible that the virus is now undetectable and non-transmissible with medication that’s not much of a burden in one’s daily life. A cure for AIDS was much closer than anyone imagined in 1993. When everything seems dark and hopeless, this is one of the examples that always lifts my spirits. Humankind can achieve incredible things…

While looking for something else on San Francisco's heath departments website I found the following two things.

In San Francisco

Deaths from AIDs dropped 70% from 1996 to 1997. That's in one year it went from a relentless death sentence to manageable chronic.

While almost everyone that got HIV in the mid 80's are dead most people that got HIV in the mid 90's are still here.

If that's not winning it's close.

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