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Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

abc.net.au

61–70 of 97 posts

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#61
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, corruption is more sophisticated, but it exists and is huge nonetheless. The big difference is that the starting GDP is higher, which allows for a little more to reach normal citizens after corruption is taken into account.

An old friend of mine who was originally from Iran told me something a family member of his said to him, which was basically: "In the west you may not have bribery, but the ability to influence decisions is mostly out of your reach. At least here little people can have some small control over their environment through small bribes." I had never heard bribery pitched that way before, and it's obviously... a garbage...…

> but the ability to influence decisions is mostly out of your reach. At least here little people can have some small control over their environment through small bribes

This is mostly comforting nonsense.

The average American has more say, potential and actual, in their government than the average Iranian. (And the average Iranian more than the Saudis.) What in a bribe economy one pays for with cash in a civil society takes effort. The tragedy in American civics is far too many are too poor, tired and/or uneducated to fully engage.

And one of these states is preferable to the other. My Indian family used to speak similarly. Yet when they have the chance, they vote against corruption. To the degree India has become less corrupt over the last decade, it's been celebrated by them out of both pride and personal interest.

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#62
post #3

Lead poisoning in Australian mining towns is a surprisingly contentious issue. Town mayors usually try to cover up and deny any evidence of lead poisoning, because without the mines, there is no town. The broken hill that the town of Broken Hill is named after no longer exists. The mullock heap pictured in the article is all that remains: the entire hill was dug away when the original mine was active. As you can see…

Always a pleasure to see we're in a good company. I've had the misfortune of being raised in this place: https://maps.app.goo.gl/aXkHEfX42aNp2yxV9 Combine a large lead smelting plant with one of the world's largest producers of (unenriched) uranium, and a dozen other metals like copper and zinc. Add zero effective environmental regulation on top, and you get us. According to government data, lead concentrations in th…

I grew up in this town too in the 90s. It was very common to see everyone outside suddenly start coughing because of sulfur dioxide emissions from the plant.

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#63
This is neat, but why can't they just test the children's blood directly? In Massachusetts 70% of all children aged 9 months to 4 years old had their blood tested for lead in 2022. I'm not sure what the national average is.

https://www.mass.gov/doc/2022-annual-childhood-lead-poisonin... [PDF]

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#64
post #4

It's really scary how a tiny amount of a mineral can permanently damage the human mind. I have to admit there's a part of me that almost wants to be skeptical, that mg of a rock could overcome the wonderous self-aware human mind. Every so often I have to remind that skeptical piece of me that it's an idiot and that every human alive is wildly fragile to any number of elements and chemicals. ------ Onto the article, i…

Solutions to negative externalities are always hard. Testing is an inherent problem that can lead to accountability and demands for remediation or renumeration.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Externality#Possible_solutions...

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#65
post #3

Lead poisoning in Australian mining towns is a surprisingly contentious issue. Town mayors usually try to cover up and deny any evidence of lead poisoning, because without the mines, there is no town. The broken hill that the town of Broken Hill is named after no longer exists. The mullock heap pictured in the article is all that remains: the entire hill was dug away when the original mine was active. As you can see…

Seems crazy that you’d build a town so close to the mine (or a smelter so close to a town). It’s not as if Australia is short on space for building things! Perhaps it should be a condition of operating a lucrative mining site that you build/subsidise worker’s accommodation at a reasonable enough distance to be free from contamination.

As I understand it, much mining is done in Australia through FIFO (fly-in-fly-out) nowadays. It greatly reduces the need for infrastructure, boom-bust towns and issues like these.

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#66
post #3

Lead poisoning in Australian mining towns is a surprisingly contentious issue. Town mayors usually try to cover up and deny any evidence of lead poisoning, because without the mines, there is no town. The broken hill that the town of Broken Hill is named after no longer exists. The mullock heap pictured in the article is all that remains: the entire hill was dug away when the original mine was active. As you can see…

Always a pleasure to see we're in a good company. I've had the misfortune of being raised in this place: https://maps.app.goo.gl/aXkHEfX42aNp2yxV9 Combine a large lead smelting plant with one of the world's largest producers of (unenriched) uranium, and a dozen other metals like copper and zinc. Add zero effective environmental regulation on top, and you get us. According to government data, lead concentrations in th…

> I guess to let it be known that there are far worse places out there than a couple of small Australian towns (with what to me looks like very clean air).

It sounds like the situation in your town was very bad. That neither diminishes nor invalidates a bad situation elsewhere. We should all be striving for better, no matter where we start from.

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#67
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually considering how functional humans can be with a little lead, we are quite robust. I wonder why lead causes brain problems. I think it’s because lead in the brain affects electrons and neurons. Maybe lead is magnetic?

No, Lead is not magnetic to any significant degree. What happens is that calcium is very important for your neurons to operate and signal each-other, and lead happens to be "close enough" that is competes/interferes with those mechanisms, gumming things up permanently. This causes the cells and their connections to wither and die, or to fail to form properly at all. https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016/deadly-biol…

That is insightful

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#68

This is neat, but why can't they just test the children's blood directly? In Massachusetts 70% of all children aged 9 months to 4 years old had their blood tested for lead in 2022. I'm not sure what the national average is. https://www.mass.gov/doc/2022-annual-childhood-lead-poisonin... [PDF]

Because you can test the sparrows without having to raise an infant on the site. If you can demonstrate areas that are unsafe or illegal to raise children in, then perhaps people won't raise children there (or not, given we already know these mining towns are toxic and children raised in them will be victims of lead poisoning to various degrees). The reason they are testing children in the article is to confirm that the sparrow test is a valid proxy, and we will be able to test on a wider scale around the country.

Re: Sparrows may be 'canary in the coal mine' for lead poisoning in children: study

#70
post #4

It's really scary how a tiny amount of a mineral can permanently damage the human mind. I have to admit there's a part of me that almost wants to be skeptical, that mg of a rock could overcome the wonderous self-aware human mind. Every so often I have to remind that skeptical piece of me that it's an idiot and that every human alive is wildly fragile to any number of elements and chemicals. ------ Onto the article, i…

Wait until your realize botulinum toxin has an LD50 of just 3 ng/kg.

I have recently heard or read somewhere that 20mg of Botulinum Toxin is enough to kill the whole human population - multiple times.
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