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Launch HN: Traceloop (YC W23) – Detecting LLM Hallucinations with OpenTelemetry

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Re: Launch HN: Traceloop (YC W23) – Detecting LLM Hallucinations with OpenTelemetry

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HoneyHive founder here. Nir and team have built an amazing OSS package and have been fantastic to collaborate with (despite being competitors)! As an industry, I think more of us need to work together to standardize telemetry protocols, schemas, naming conventions, etc. since it’s currently all over the place and leads to a ton of confusion and headache for developers (which ultimately goes against the whole point of…

Your startup is as deceptive as Traceloop. You make claims like "detect LLM errors like hallucination" even though you have no guaranteed ability to do this. At best you can assist in detection. As someone who works at a large enterprise deploying LLMs I can tell you many people are getting pretty tired of the false claims.

Our stance here is most model-graded evaluators from packages like RAGAS and similar don't work well out-of-the-box, and require tons of tuning and alignment (i.e. you need to change the evaluator prompt/criteria, run it against your own traces, and see if you agree with the results, and continue this process in batches over time). We make that process easy in HoneyHive by allowing you to change the underlying evaluator prompt and test it against your recent traces to validate performance: https://docs.honeyhive.ai/evaluators/llm.

The main takeaway is you can't think of model-graded evaluators as static tests that you can set up and forget about; you need to constantly tune, align them, and validate them against your own human judgement (aka treat them like an LLM application in-and-of-itself!). They cannot detect fine-grained errors reliably, but they've been proven to detect extreme outliers well and can serve as a fuzzy signal at best. For anyone interested, here's a great paper on how to align and validate evaluators: https://arxiv.org/pdf/2404.12272

The real solution here is still relying on human judgement as much as possible and using tools that make reading your data easier/scalable. Think of evaluators as a sampling function to reduce the number of traces humans need to manually review. Another point worth noting is deterministic metrics (eg: keyword assertions) often cover ~60-80% of failure modes in the real world and should be used liberally.

Re: Launch HN: Traceloop (YC W23) – Detecting LLM Hallucinations with OpenTelemetry

#72
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Clickhouse has text + vector indexes, so that may be native, though we have never used them and I find vector indexes tricky to scale w other DBs. Text... Or neither... may be enough in practice tho as we mostly only care about searching on metadata dimensions like task. We are thinking about sampled hot data for ops staff in otel DB+UIs, and long-term full data in S3/Clickhouse for custom tooling. It'd be cool if we…

I think you can (pretty) easily set this up with an otel collector and something that replays data from S3 - there's a native implementation that converts otel to clickhouse

Our scenario would be more like using Clickhouse / a dwh for session cohort/workflow filtering and then populating otel tools for viz goodies. Interestingly, to your point, the otel python exporter libs are pretty simple, so SQL results -> otel spans -> Grafana temp storage should be simple!

Re: Launch HN: Traceloop (YC W23) – Detecting LLM Hallucinations with OpenTelemetry

#76
post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

not to mention langsmith? braintrust? humanloop? does that count? not sure what else - lets crowdsource a list here so that people can find them in future

Im not sure which ones are Otel compliant. Im only aware of 3 that are Otel compliant: 1. Traceloop Otel 2. Langtrace.ai Otel 3. OpenLIT Otel 4. Portkey 5. Langfuse 6. Arize LLM 7. Phoniex SDK 8. Truera LLM 9. Truelens 10. Context 11. Braintrust 12. Parea 13. Context AI 14. openlayer.com 15. Deepchecks 16. langsmith 17. Confident AI 18. Helicone 19. Langwatch.ai 20. Arthur 21. Aporia 22. scale.com 23. Whylabs 24. gen…

thanks for the list, super handy!
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